Tacos of Texas

Mando Rayo: Mark, your calendars give back. Gig is happening April 29th at Skybox on six, and it’s going to be a night to remember Top chefs rising, culinary stars, incredible food, all for an amazing cost. And all. Be your mc. For the no check proceeds go to Visit Austin Foundation. Good work, Austin and Urban Roots.

Tickets are going fast, so get yours at Eventbrite. Under give back gig 2026 Amos.

Hey, this is Mandore from the Tacos of Texas. We’re busy cooking up season six, but in the meantime, here’s a segment from my interview on the Texas Standard and Austin Signal. You can hear me every month. Talking about tacos and taco culture and get ready for safe premiering on August, 2026. The Tacos of Texas is produced by Identity Productions in partnership with KUT and KUTX studios.

Listen on kut.org or wherever you get your podcasts.

Angela Kocherga: This is a Texas standard. I’m Angela Coga. Tamales in the holiday season go hand in hand, especially here in Texas, and though the corn husk may reign supreme in most homes, the banana leaf variety is coming for that crown. It’s the ongoing tamal debate.

Although for some there may be no debate at all. For more on this fun food fight, we turn to Mandore, host of the Tacos of Texas podcast, Mando. So great to talk to you again.

Mando Rayo: Hey, Angela. Great to be back.

Angela Kocherga: Well, let’s just start with what people call this masa based dish. Tamal. Tamal. Doesn’t matter. I

Mando Rayo: know

Angela Kocherga: who’s right.

Mando Rayo: Well, you, you know, the great, uh, Mexican proverb said El tamal tamal if you’re eating a very delicious one. And so, ah, so you got it. Yeah. So here’s the thing. Here’s the thing, you know with tamales, uh, tamal, if you’re eating one tamales. If you’re eating Mochas and Tamal. If you’re living in Texas.

Angela Kocherga: Very interesting.

Yeah. Well thanks for that distinction. And most people do eat more than one, we’ll be honest

Mando Rayo: to Yeah, they do. They do. But I, I, I, you know, if you’re eating gu Tamala, I dunno about that. But for me it’s always tamales. It has to be the plural. Tamales is very, it’s kind of a, a regional type of anglicized.

Version of that word. Right, which is actually, or originally, uh, from the NATO language. Yeah. And, and, and the original it is Tamal. It’s interesting, you know, and so, but most people are, you know, if you’re living in Tekas, they, they definitely like to say that Tamale.

Angela Kocherga: Yeah. We, they created their own, their own word.

What about the masa and the filling, what they’re encased in? Yes. Corn husk or banana leaves.

Mando Rayo: Yeah, that’s right. You know, the main thing is the mais. Right. And the mais is obviously, you know, the, the corn that is, it’s a labor of love. You know, it, it’s tamales are not easy to make and it takes a whole community, a whole family.

That’s why you have tamalada. Everybody participates and, and, and, uh, contributes, right? But, but the main thing is, is the, is uh, the dough, right? And the corn masa, and it’s kind of like kneading at it. Threading, threading it with her, with your hands. So much so that you have to get into room temperature.

And of course, you know, you got the feelings. Um, it could everything from vegetarian to sweet to, you know, uh, beef based pork base, uh, whole mix, even, even chicken, even, you know, uh, be and cheese. Uh, I’ve seen some and cheese tamales.

Angela Kocherga: I have too. Well, no, you’re right. Those tamalas, it’s very labor intensive and it is a great way for families to get together during the holiday season and produce all those tamales.

I’ve certainly, yes. Been part of that. Well, you, we talked about the, the corn husk versus the banana leaf. Is this a regional distinction? I’ve, I’ve eaten a lot of the banana leaves in southern Mexico. Yes. But does it really make a difference in taste? I think the texture does change.

Mando Rayo: It does, it does. Um, you know, so, uh, in Texas and I would say northern Mexico, you do see a lot of the corn husk tamales, and they’re usually filled with green or red, uh, pork.

Uh, definitely beef. But then the, um, the more of the banana leaves you kind of in the southern part of Mexico and into. Central America and South, south America. And, and then definitely when you see that, it’s kind of like that oaxacan style mm-hmm. Type of tamal. You know, I thi I would say the corn husk tamales because of the shape of, of the corn husk.

It’s a bit longer and maybe thinner, but then the the um, uh, the banana leaf one, it’s more kind of like square and thick and big. And I would say it’s also. Uh, the masa comes out more moist. Yes. Because of the, because of the banana leaves,

right?

Angela Kocherga: Yeah. It’s kind of steamed in the banana leaf. Yeah. The other one’s more firm.

I tell you. I love ’em both. They’re both delicious.

Mando Rayo: Yeah. They’re so good. And, and it’s a variety. You know, one year my mother-in-law. Is from Hondura. So we had a, the big tamale debate, was it corn husk or was it banana leaf? And to be honest, at the end of the day, we both won.

Angela Kocherga: Yeah, exactly. Whoever gets to taste them wins.

Yeah. Well, you know, you mentioned sweet tamales and earlier this year we had Chef Dora Ramirez on the show. She’s a vegan chef who grew up in Acuna, Mexico, just across the border from Del Rio. And she mentioned that when she shared her vegan recipe for. Sweet tamales on her Instagram. She got a lot of comments from people, many Latinos in the US saying dessert.

Tamales are not a thing. I heartily disagree. I, you know, I grew up,

Mando Rayo: I disagree too.

Angela Kocherga: Yeah. I grew up part, uh, in pink Tamales, sweet Tamales in Guadalajara. As a child, I tasted those and I think people give, give a chance, um, they will love ’em. What are your thoughts on this?

Mando Rayo: I love ’em. I love ’em because they’re great for, with some rado, some Cafe oa.

I grew up, uh uh, the poster, we call ’em, you know, the tamales, dce, right? Or mm-hmm. You can eat it as a poster. And my favorites were the cinnamon. It had cinnamon. Raisins and some nuts in there. And so I am a pro dulce tamales for sure.

Angela Kocherga: Yeah, it sound delicious. And my, my mother-in-law makes some with all the ingredients you just said and adds a little bit of fresh fruit in there or, or pineapple.

So there

Mando Rayo: you go.

Angela Kocherga: What about the savory tamales? Which ones do you like? And there’s a huge variety now.

Mando Rayo: Oh, oh, yeah. Yeah. So I grew up, you know, uh, being, you know, from the borderlands, uh, I grew up with, you know, the influence of the, the red chilies and the green chilies, you know, from New Mexico and Mexico.

And so I love those, I love the pork ones with, uh, the Chile, Colorado. Um, and the gido, but I also like the Oaxacan style or even Central American style that you have. Black or yellow mole and red sauce, or even like, uh, a Rajas, uh, poblano Rajas with, with chicken. But then, you know, like you also have like, you know, my mother-in-law introduced me to the Central American version with, um, you know, pork and bell peppers and olives and capers and raisins and rice.

They’re full, they’re filled. Like maybe those, those are the types of tamales that you just have. The one tamal?

Angela Kocherga: Yeah. No d yeah. Those, those are stuffed to the brim. No. And, and so for people who may not know, oh, you’re saying Raja says those are, you know, thinly sliced like chiles. I mean, explain that. And that one’s very popular, as you said in the El Paso with cheese, which I had never tasted tamales with cheese.

Oh,

Mando Rayo: so good. So good. I mean, you know, the thing is, is just like, you know, if you’re, you’re, you’re cooking with dough, you can make all kinds of things and, and that’s a great, that’s a great thing about Mexican or Latin American food that you can mix and match whatever you have and, and make, make your own tamal your own way.

Angela Kocherga: So you mentioned Jam. Let’s talk about what that is and also some other holiday, uh, recipes or, or dishes that people enjoy in their homes this time of year.

Mando Rayo: Yeah, no, for sure. Like rados, you know, they’re, uh, uh, kind of like a, a cornmeal based drink, you know, infused with chocolate. And that natural, uh, sweetener, pilon c and cinnamon and, um, you know, it just, it just warms you up really nice on a cold day.

But besides tamales, there’s, uh, you know, I think when you think about like the, the holiday meals, uh, all, all of it is tied back to winter. And so you do see a lot of, you know, especially like, uh, like in the farmlands you see a lot of pork, uh, the accessibility of pork. So you do have a lot of, uh, caritas and uh, chi and that really works well, uh, when you’re cooking in cold weather.

Angela Kocherga: Yeah. All delicious. And uh, definitely, uh, we all know in many households there’s a tamale, extra 10 pounds from all the, those delicious tamales. Um, lastly, do you want to settle the debate in any way or pick your favorite, uh, tamale, or is that asking too much? Yeah,

Mando Rayo: yeah. No, not at all for me, definitely, I, I mean, I grew up with it.

It’s the corn, uh, red pork tamales. And plural. Tamales. Mm-hmm. Not tamale, not hot tamale. It’s tamales.

Angela Kocherga: Well, my favorite is the green Chile chicken, so I, yeah. All delicious. Well, we’ve been speaking with Mandore, host of the Tacos of Texas podcast, or maybe the Tamales of Texas this time of year. Oh my God.

Thank you so much. Great talking to you as usual.

Mando Rayo: Okay, thanks. Bye. You can find Tacos of Texas on kut.org or wherever you get your podcast.