In Black America

John L. Hanson Jr.: From the University of Texas at Austin, KUT Radio. This is in Black America.

Ralph McDaniels: I wanna do a show that, you know, I think young people will tap into. There’s music out there. There’s these things called music videos, which really wasn’t a big thing yet. And Michael Jackson really is the one who made it big with Thriller.

You know, that was a prime time TV special when, when they premiered, um, Michael Jackson thriller. And, um, but there were others that were making music videos. There was Lionel Richie, there was Rick James. There were pointer sisters. You know, there was all of these groups that were out there that had videos with weren’t getting played anywhere, and I.

Had tapped into, you know, how those videos were available to us. And I said, you know, I could put a show together. And, um, and the program director said, uh, okay, let’s, let’s give it a shot.

John L. Hanson Jr.: Ralph McDaniels, co-creator and co-host of Video Music Box. In 1983, after interning at WNYC in New York City and subsequently becoming a broadcast engineer, McDaniels created Studio 31 Dance Party, a television program revolving around videos of music performances.

This show would transformative into Video Music Box, which is hosted by McDaniels and Lionel c Martin. Back then, music videos were a new phenomenon In 1981, when MTV began, no one really saw it because not too many people had cable. This was a time when there were antennas on the TV to get reception.

According to McDaniels, some videos came into the studio of RB artists performing. It wasn’t meant for TV just for them to become aware of who those artists were. He thought, what if he played these on TV and talked over them? He was already a dj, so he knew how to play music and talk over it, and that’s how Video Music Fox was born.

I’m Johnelle Hanson Jr. And welcome to another edition of In Black America on this week’s program, video Music Box with Ralph McDaniels. In black America.

Ralph McDaniels: So we were there from, if not day one, day four of, of hip hop, you know, and we were capturing all of these information, all these images of artists performing, of interviews, of dancers, of DJs, of um, you know, the entire culture of what hip hop is all about.

People, the people you know who was there, you know, the fashion. And I think that that part of it was priceless. That’s part of our collection, the video music box collection, which is our nonprofit, um, video music box collection.org. And I knew that in the past, folks like James Brown and Slim and Family Stone, a lot of these images were lost.

John L. Hanson Jr.: Before there was Joe MTV Rap and BET Rap City and Video Soul. There was video Music Box back in the day. VMB was the longest running hip hop show on TV and was the first and only show the Ed rap music videos. In 1983, Ralph McDaniels created Studio 31 Dance Party, a television program revolving around video of music performances.

The program will transform into video Music Box, which is hosted by McDaniels and Lionel c Martin. It aired on New York City, owned Public television station, W-N-Y-C-T-V, now W-P-X-N-T-V from 1984 to 1996. Many artists from the golden age of hip hop made their debut on Video Music Box. Although it was a local show, it Influence has been global and has been considered a major factor in the growth of hip hop, music and culture fresh out of college.

My Jan has got the idea for Video Music Box. By working as the engineer for the New York City public TV station, the show captures New York’s creative raw energy. Recently Black America spoke with Uncle Ralph.

Ralph McDaniels: Well, you know, New York City is a, is a, is a different place. You know, there’s so many different, um, culture here.

So, you know, like growing up in Brooklyn, you have a, uh, strong African American community as well as a Caribbean community, a Latino community. Um, you know, just people from all over the planet, you know, end up in New York somehow some way. And like we always say, you gonna meet somebody from Brooklyn, anywhere in the world, somebody from Brooklyn, say Brooklyn in the house.

And somebody in the way in the back at the bar will be like, yeah, we right here. So that’s the, that’s the kind of neighborhood that I grew up in, listening to all types of music, being aware of all types of culture, and, and, and that’s what it was in Brooklyn and in Queens. So, um, being a lover of music.

You know, I listen to, you know, soul music. In my early days, my father, uh, would play a lot, of course a lot of Motown.

John L. Hanson Jr.: Mm-hmm.

Ralph McDaniels: You know, and James Brown and Aretha and you know, and all that kind of stuff. And, and then on my mother’s side, ’cause she’s from, her family’s from Trinidad, we heard a lot of Calypso music or Soca music they call it now.

And so, you know, I got a me a mix of a lot of different sounds coming up.

John L. Hanson Jr.: I understand you were a radio engineer.

Ralph McDaniels: I started out as a TV engineer.

John L. Hanson Jr.: Okay.

Ralph McDaniels: So I did, uh, I worked at, I, I graduated from college with a communications degree.

John L. Hanson Jr.: Mm-hmm.

Ralph McDaniels: And, um, I got a job at a TV station here in New York, local TV station.

Um, I worked as a, uh, cameraman. I worked as a lighting guy. I did. Technical direction, meaning, you know, you kind of the guy that when you have a live show we’re switching the cameras from. Right. And um, and then I, um, I wanted to get on the other side of the camera, in front of the camera and, uh, well actually I didn’t want to get in front of the camera, but I was kind of forced to because it was my voice that you heard in the beginning of Video Music Box, which started in 1983.

You just heard my voice. And so I was kind of like a unsung vj. And, um. You know, unseen, VI should say. And um, and then, uh, folks at the TV station said they wanna see the, the person behind the voice. And I said, I don’t wanna be on tv. And they were like, you have to do that. You have to do that. This is what the, the people are asking for.

And, um, and so like in 19 84, 85 was the first time you actually saw me, so I was doing the show for like almost a, a little bit more than a year before you actually saw me.

John L. Hanson Jr.: How did you come up with the idea for the program?

Ralph McDaniels: I’m a troublemaker, you know, I’m, I’m always thinking I’m a Pisces. I’m always thinking and dreaming about different things and because I was an engineer, I would watch almost all the shows.

There was some times when I would be a. Tape operator.

Mm-hmm.

Ralph McDaniels: And um, and I would, at the end of the shows it would say, you know, public broadcasting system ’cause we were part of the PBS.

John L. Hanson Jr.: Right.

Ralph McDaniels: And um, and I said, well that means public broadcasting system, so this is supposed to be for the public, but I don’t see anything that, you know, is for my public, that people that I hang out with, you know, young people mm-hmm.

John L. Hanson Jr.: Mm-hmm.

Ralph McDaniels: That are African Americans or Latinos or just young people in general. And um, and I said, I gotta come up with an idea. And that’s gonna be my argument, you know, not knowing that it was, it could be controversial, but, you know, um, anytime you come up with that, when you come in from that perspective, people looking at you sideways.

And so I said, nah, this is, this is the idea. I want to do a show that, you know, I think young people will tap into. There’s music out there. There’s these things called music videos, which really wasn’t a big thing yet. And Michael Jackson really is the one who made it big with thriller. You know, that was a prime time TV special.

When, when they premiered Michael Jackson thriller. And, um, but there were others that were making music videos. There was Lionel Richie, there was Rick James, there were pointer sisters. You know, there was all of these groups that were out there that had videos but weren’t getting played anywhere. And I had tapped into, you know, how those videos were available to us.

And I said, you know, I could put a show together and, um. And the program director said, uh, okay, let’s, let’s give it a shot

John L. Hanson Jr.: now. When you decided to put the program together, whether it you and someone else, you have a partner.

Ralph McDaniels: Yeah, so, so in the beginning it was just me and a, and a editor and, um, and we would sit around and I would almost like a dj, like a DJ set.

It was like a mix tape, you know, I would say, okay, we’re gonna play this video, this video, this video, and then I’m gonna have a little voiceover and we would insert the voiceover in between the videos. And, um, and that was it. It was a half an hour. And then, uh, we said, okay, can you do this every day, Monday through Friday?

And we wanna do something, we, we have a after school slot. Can you do it then?

John L. Hanson Jr.: Mm-hmm.

Ralph McDaniels: And I said, um, okay. And I knew that there wasn’t enough hip hop music videos at the time. Definitely. So we had to mix it up so we would have a, uh, you know, old school Monday, which was maybe some of the videos that. You know, had come out a couple of years before, you know, we were actually on the air and then we would have Tasty Tuesdays, which was all slow, um, ballots and songs at that tempo on Tuesdays.

And then Wednesday we would play some new stuff. Thursday we would play some alternative kind of stuff, which might mix it up with some, you know, blue eyed soul and some other stuff in there. And um, and Friday was more new stuff. And as, as time went on, you know, that was the mix. And at that point I knew we had a lot to do, a lot of work to do ’cause it was every day.

And I bought in my partner, um, Lionel. Um, Martin who went on to become, um, one of the best music video directors who ever did it.

John L. Hanson Jr.: Now, when you started Video Music Box, obviously it pivoted to, to, to not just videos. Why, so and where did you find the other elements to include in the program?

Ralph McDaniels: So, the station on the first, um, when we went to the, uh, the full-time, you know, you know, every day.

Schedule said that they had a problem with, um, the city, New York City had a problem with graffiti. This is the eighties, you know? Mm-hmm. On the train, graffitied up. And they said, we have a, a campaign that we’re gonna partner with the sanitation department with. So, you know, I didn’t think anything of it, ’cause I’d never done this before.

So then they came to me and it was like, the campaign was don’t do it, you know, graffiti. And so I knew some graffiti writers, so I was like this, like, hmm, this is gonna be tricky, you know, how are we gonna make this happen? And I said, well, we have to. I said, look, you can’t just tell folks don’t do it.

That’s just gonna make them want to do it. And I remember sitting down with the commissioner of, uh. Of the sanitation department. They were just pissed off at graffiti artists. They were locking them all up, you know, as, as a migrant, as a, what you call ’em, like, you know, it was, it was just bad, you know? And so I said, look, you can’t do that.

You have to give somebody alternatives. So we came up with some alternatives. To start bringing graffiti riders indoors into art galleries and different spaces in, um, in Manhattan, in New York City. And um, and that was a great alternative because it wasn’t like we were saying that it’s bad, it’s just that they don’t want it on the trains.

And, and that’s how we, we, we be, we, that was our first partnership. So we started shooting PSAs with all the different artists from the Fat Boys to actors that we knew. I remember, uh, Mario Van Pees came. He was in a movie at the time. He was new. All these different folks that we thought had influence and um, and they would read the script.

And then in between the videos we would play these PSAs. To kind of bring awareness to what the city’s concerns were.

John L. Hanson Jr.: When did you know that hip hop was going to be revolutionary?

Ralph McDaniels: So, I remember going to, um, a venue in, uh, arena in, um, New York City. It was, uh, it was the first hip hop concert or tour.

John L. Hanson Jr.: Mm-hmm.

Ralph McDaniels: It was run, DMC was the headliner. Houdini Grandmaster Flash in the Furious five. Uh, LL Cool J was on that show. The Fat Boys.

John L. Hanson Jr.: Mm-hmm.

Ralph McDaniels: And, um, and it was at the Nassau Coliseum in in Queen, in Long Island, New York. And, um, it’s called a Fresh Fest. And, um, when I arrived there, it was more than just African Americans and Latinos, who were the only people I saw up to that point into hip hop.

It was, you know, white folks, it was Asian Americans. It was, it was all these different people. And everybody looked the same. They all had Adidas, they had the hat to the back. They knew all the lyrics to the song, and I was like, this is a, this is not just a black thing. This is everybody’s into this and that.

Where I knew that at that point, I knew that it was good for people just bringing people together as well as it was. It was a culture that had developed the song life.

John L. Hanson Jr.: I understand you’re listening to In Black America with John L. Hanson Jr. We’ll be back with more of our conversation in just a moment.

If you’re just joining us, I’m Johnny O. Hanson Jr. And you’re listening to In Black America, from KUT Radio. And we see with Ralph McDaniel hosting Creative of New York City’s most successful public television show, video music box. Mr. McDaniel’s, I at some point. The city sold the public television station.

So you had to move the program to another venue?

Ralph McDaniels: Yeah, so in, um, 1998, the mayor was Rudy Giuliani and he was said that he had to get rid of some of the assets of New York City to, you know, raise some money. And that was one of the, one of the assets that they got rid of was the TV station. So we were off the air at NYC TV for about two months.

And then we moved over to another station, which was originally used as a education station for the Board of Education in New York. So the Board of Education would have their own channel and it would go into the schools and they would talk about math and science and English and you know what have you.

But for whatever reason, it wasn’t operating anymore and it was just sitting there. And so they were doing some other programming there and I said, can I do it over here? And they were familiar with what I was doing at N-Y-C-T-V. And they said yes, so I moved over there.

John L. Hanson Jr.: Now, when you moved over there, what changed, if anything?

Ralph McDaniels: The time. So I didn’t have the three 30 to four 30 anymore. Um, I moved, they wanted to move all the mus, they had all of their music programs late, late nights on Fridays. So they put me in that slot. So I was in 11:00 PM to 12, 12:00 AM

John L. Hanson Jr.: now recently, uh, well not recently, but recently for me to see the documentary.

Why was it important for you all to put this documentary together?

Ralph McDaniels: Well, you know, everything had to start somewhere, right?

John L. Hanson Jr.: Mm-hmm.

Ralph McDaniels: So we were there from, you know, if not day one, day four of, of hip hop, you know, and we were capturing all of these information, all these images. Of artists performing, of interviews, of dancers, of DJs, of um, you know, the entire culture of what hip hop is all about.

People, the people you know who’s there, you know, the fashion. And I think that that part of it was priceless. That’s part of our collection, the video music box collection, which is our nonprofit. Um, video music box collection.org. And I knew that in the past, folks like James Brown and Slim and Family Stone, a lot of this images were lost.

You know, there was a show called Soul I used to watch in the late seventies. Right. And it, right. Yeah. And it was, um, it was amazing show to me, you know, anytime black people on TV back then at that time.

John L. Hanson Jr.: Mm-hmm.

Ralph McDaniels: It was exciting, you know. And um, and then one day I met the producer and I said, well, are you gonna bring that back?

And he said, no, you know, channel 13 threw his tapes away. And I was like, what, what? Like, how is that possible?

John L. Hanson Jr.: Mm-hmm.

Ralph McDaniels: You know? And why would they do that? You know? And he said, ’cause they didn’t care about that. That wasn’t a priority to them. And I just couldn’t fathom it, you know, ’cause it meant so much to me.

Eventually they did find some episodes and they are out there now on the website of, of Channel 13 PBS Cha, uh, channel 13. Um, but at the time, maybe three episodes existed and he gave me. Three of those episodes. And you know, one was Gil Scott Heron, one was Stevie Wonder, it was Stevie Wonder’s 21st birthday on that show.

And it was just amazing to watch this, you know, ’cause it wasn’t like it was just Stevie performing. It was like this whole thing where people were giving gifts and talking. I never saw anything like that on tv. And you know, and that’s what, you know, all of the, and people go, well what was your, your, um.

What was, what was your motivation? I was shows like that and Don Cornelius and Soul Train and Dick Clark, you know, and all of those things. I watched all of it and sucked it all in and then made my version of what I thought that should be.

John L. Hanson Jr.: Was it difficult convincing the Queen Public Library to do hip hop, to record and, and save hip hop?

Ralph McDaniels: No, it wasn’t difficult. It was, what was it going to look like? Okay. Was the hard part. They knew they needed something. You know, libraries, they struggle because you know, nowadays everybody has a phone,

John L. Hanson Jr.: right?

Ralph McDaniels: Everybody has Google and they think that all the information is there and it’s not right there.

There’s information in your local libraries wherever you’re at, listening to this. That is not on Google. And the only place you’ll find it, and it can relate to your community because you live in that community where that library’s at. And so everything hasn’t been digitized. So it’s in that library. And if you want to know something about your community, you, or your block, you know, they, they have, you know, the schematics of a block, you know, or you know who used to live there, who owned that area, all of this information that’s there that you may not be able to find.

Accurately on, on your phone. So, um, I wanted to bring that information that they didn’t have about hip hop. Mm-hmm. To the library, and it’s specifically to the Queens public library. This is in Queens, New York. There’s five boroughs. Specifically talk about. The Queen’s story. Tell me about the Queen’s story.

That’s what I wanted to know.

John L. Hanson Jr.: I understand. What was it like dealing with these corporate marketing people and PR teams when, excuse me, when video music Box was in its infancy,

Ralph McDaniels: most of the music business and the record labels were more concerned about MTV. Mm, because MTV is was, that was a partnership almost with the record labels.

John L. Hanson Jr.: Mm, mm-hmm.

Ralph McDaniels: You know, they, they put music out, they go directly to MTV, they talk to management. They know how many spins they’re gonna get. Um, they know how many times the artist is gonna be on that screen. And many of those people, you know, they just knew each other. They came from the same community. It was a rock and roll thing in the beginning.

And, um, when it came to hip hop, they didn’t know anything about that because. It was at, in the beginning it was black, independent.

John L. Hanson Jr.: Mm-hmm.

Ralph McDaniels: And labels, you know, you know, Russell Simmons had Def Jam, Tyrone Williams had Coach Chilling Records. Um, Andre Harrell had Uptown Records. These were all people who, where do you find these people at?

Mm-hmm. You know, where, where did they be at? So it wasn’t that easy. I

John L. Hanson Jr.: understand when you were dealing with. Those record individuals, who were some of the artists early on that you knew that was going to eventually become superstars?

Ralph McDaniels: Oh, wow. That’s a good question. Like I can clearly say like, big Daddy Kane, I knew he was a star.

John L. Hanson Jr.: Mm-hmm.

Ralph McDaniels: Like he cared about details.

John L. Hanson Jr.: Okay.

Ralph McDaniels: You know, it’s not easy becoming a star. You gotta really care about certain things, you know? Right,

John L. Hanson Jr.: right, right.

Ralph McDaniels: Everything. It is not just about you getting up on the stage and performing and signing autographs, you know? And so you have to make sure that you, you, you got everything, you know?

And so Big Daddy, Kane, NAS, Jay-Z I don’t even, not even in the beginning, Jay-Z. Jay-Z was more just an artist in the beginning.

John L. Hanson Jr.: Mm-hmm. Right?

Ralph McDaniels: And then he developed into a business part, man run. DMC clearly was a machine, you know, there was mm-hmm. They, they everything, their image. Their music, you know, where they performed at, who saw it first, you know, everything was important to them.

John L. Hanson Jr.: Now, when you were putting the, the program together, was it similar to what radio announcers do when they playing records?

Ralph McDaniels: In the beginning? Okay. Yeah. I just mimicked what I heard on radio. You know, I had, in fact, you know, later I went on radio, but I wasn’t, I had never been on radio before that.

John L. Hanson Jr.: I understand.

Why is hip hop such a part of the, the mainstream culture now since it was bad mouthed back in the day?

Ralph McDaniels: Um, I think that it’s relatable. Okay. You know the mm-hmm. The, the, the artists are the age of the listeners.

John L. Hanson Jr.: Mm-hmm.

Ralph McDaniels: And, you know, young people like who they like, they may not like what I like, but they like what they like and, and we may not like what they like, you know, but it’s relatable.

Like we relate to, you know, if you are over 50, you listen to Big Daddy Kane and Kid Play and him, and, you know, and certain type of group of artists, which you still enjoy listening to. If you put it on, you know, young people want to hear, you know, um. Travis Scott, they want to hear, you know, uh, future. They want to hear what, what they’re into, because those artists are talking about things that they are, they can relate to.

John L. Hanson Jr.: Was it a conscious thought on your part when you were doing video music block to actually save all those, those tapes?

Ralph McDaniels: Absolutely. I said it. I can look back in interviews I did in the eighties and I said. One day somebody’s gonna want to look back at these times and we have to have it documented and, um, and archived.

So the first part, of course, is the documentation of it, is getting a camera out there and getting into certain spaces and talking to the artists and getting tapings of them performing and whatever, as well as the community of people that are coming to those events because those people are there for a specific reason.

And, um, and why are they there? And so, um, so yeah, so it was, it was a conscious effort to just document and maintain and house everything. And that’s what my, my nonprofit is about, because now after 40 years of doing this, it’s a lot, you know, and I didn’t think I’d be doing it that long, but. You know, I just continue to do it.

So yeah, it was, it was definitely important. It’s important to not just in hip hop in whatever we do to document it.

John L. Hanson Jr.: So are you still documenting and digitizing the shows?

Ralph McDaniels: Yeah. Yeah. I’m still documenting and, and digitizing, you know, if it’s, even if it’s the music of young people today, you know, if it’s Drake or if it’s Kendrick Lamar, you know, we are still documenting that because.

In 20 years, somebody’s gonna wanna look at that and where are they gonna find it? You know? Hopefully they’ll come to us to look for it.

John L. Hanson Jr.: So when did you develop the demon? Monica? Uncle Ralph.

Ralph McDaniels: So Uncle Ralph came from, um, my good friend, Kool dj, red Alert, legendary. DJ started at 98.7 Kiss. In New York City was the first early, well not the first, but one of the early hip hop shows on commercial radio and became the blueprint for what commercial radio would sound like on, you know, for hip hop.

And he said, you know, I’m gonna call you Uncle Ralph, because anytime somebody would walk up to me, ask me question, I would kind of break it down for them what I thought they should do or, you know, give them some advice. He said, oh, you like the uncle, so you, uncle Ralph.

John L. Hanson Jr.: How has the relationship with you and Nads developed over the years?

Ralph McDaniels: Wow. It is funny because Nads said to me, um, maybe a year ago, he said, man, I didn’t think that I would still know you now, still after all this time.

John L. Hanson Jr.: Mm-hmm.

Ralph McDaniels: And I said, I didn’t either, but I’m glad that I do. You know, clearly, you know, one of the greatest of all time in the most popular genre. And, um, and I think that we’ve, just from knowing him as a kid, you know, to understanding him now and how he, you know, puts out music and where he wants his career to go.

I respect it. And, you know, and he’s done a great job at it.

John L. Hanson Jr.: I always wanted to know where did scratching eventually develop and where did it come from?

Ralph McDaniels: So, um, grand Wizard, Theodore. Mm-hmm.

John L. Hanson Jr.: He

Ralph McDaniels: was a DJ from the Bronx. His whole family was DJs and he was the youngest of them all. And I, I, I don’t wanna tell his story, but he’s the one who invented it.

John L. Hanson Jr.: I got you. When you look back at, at your career thus far, what are some of the fond memories that you have?

Ralph McDaniels: Oh, wow. So, you know, one of the things about being on TV and, and just me in general, is like, my family comes from the, you know, civil rights times. Mm-hmm. You know, they went to the march on Washington.

They, um, you know, were about fair housing in their community, all these different things that affected our community. So when I got on TV and once figured out what the TV was all about mm-hmm. And how important it was and how powerful it was, I said, I gotta do more than just music. So we have to be able to enlighten people about things that are going on in the community.

And, you know, you, you can do it in a, a, you know, you know, a real more aggressive way, or you can do it in a subtle way. I’m not a news show, so I’m gonna do it in a hip hop way. And sometimes, you know, that may be just shouting some people out or that may be playing, you know, self-destruction by the self self, um, destruction, movement, you know, all of these different things that were important to our community.

And, um, and I think that that is where, uh. Sometimes with corporate now in 2025, you know, hip hop is corporate, some of that information gets lost. You know, clearly DEI is in is, is could be part of that. Um, but now that’s been taken away. So we want to be mindful of how we do it and we just have to be creative.

That’s all.

John L. Hanson Jr.: I read somewhere, one of your first big shows with Daymond John from Shark Tank. Talk to us about that.

Ralph McDaniels: Yeah, so Daymond John, well his partner. Um, there’s four guys. They’re fubu that Damon John is. Mm-hmm. He’s the shark now, but he started a company called fubu

John L. Hanson Jr.: right

Ralph McDaniels: by us. And so there’s four guys that started fubu, and Keith worked with my mother and my mom called me and said, you know, there’s this guy that works with us and he has a clothing line.

He wanted to introduce it to you. Maybe you wear it on the show. So I said, okay.

John L. Hanson Jr.: Mm-hmm.

Ralph McDaniels: And, um, so him. He came over and Damien was there and Damien was really more the spokesperson for it. And um, and I said, yeah, this sounds amazing. This is incredible for us. By us. This is the best thing I heard in years.

And, um, and so I had ’em on the show and I said, well, where do you have this stuff? And they were like, we just selling it off the street, out the, out the trunk.

John L. Hanson Jr.: Mm-hmm.

Ralph McDaniels: You know, in Jamaica, Queens. And I said, oh, wow. So I saw them out in Jamaica, Queens, you know, standing on the street, selling their T-shirts.

But I said, everybody’s gonna want this. The world’s gonna want this. And so we had ’em on tv. I said, y’all better get some more clothes because I’m gonna blow, I’m gonna blow it up because we have a lot of listeners, a lot of viewers. And um, and right after that, Damon called me back.

John L. Hanson Jr.: Ralph McDaniels, co-creator and co-host of Video Music Box.

If you have questions, comments, or suggestions asked your future in Black America programs, email us at In Black america@kut.org. Also, let us know what radio station you heard us over. Don’t forget to subscribe to our podcast and follow us on Facebook and X. You’re gonna have periods, programs online@kut.org.

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You can support our work by donating@supportthispodcast.org. Until we have the opportunity again for Technico producer David Alvarez. I’m Johnny O. Hanson, Jr. Thank you for joining us today. Please join us again next week.

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