In Black America

Matt Largey: Tickets are running out for T’S next ATT X plane live show, October 29th at Bass Concert Hall. Brand new stories about bad movies, good food, and a mysterious figure among others.

LIVE SHOW AUDIO: I saw this as my sanctuary and I was like, this is where I’m going to perform until I die. Join us for ATXPlained Live on October 29th at Bass Concert Hall.

Get your tickets@texasperformingarts.org.

Support for ATXplained comes from HEB Meals on Wheels, central Texas FBF Law and Austin Watershed Protections Grow green.org.

John Hanson: From the University of Texas at Austin, KUT Radio. This is in Black America.

Jordan Cooper: When I first moved to New York, I did a lot of self-producing. I just, you know, I always say it don’t take money all the time. Sometimes it’s just about getting the work done. Don’t wait for the money before you do the work. You know, so I, I was doing plays in classrooms, I was doing plays in basements.

I was doing, I was, you know, doing what I could, where I could. And then thankfully, you know, um, I did a reading of the Play, A NoMo, uh, directed by Steve Walker Webb. And, uh, the public theater was at one of those readings, uh, a representative from the public theater and Jack Phillips Moore. And he, um, kind of just brought us here and, and, and.

They were like, okay, we, we would love to do this show with you. We would love to tell this story. And I was able to tell that story and that’s really what opened the door for a lot of things for me. You know, with I created the Miss Pat show on BET plus, and Miss Pat got introduced to me because she saw that play.

John Hanson: Jordan E. Cooper, Tony Award, nominated actor, playwright, producer, and director and founder of Cookout Entertainment Cooper has accomplished what typically take decades to achieve. In his early twenties, he opened his first off Broadway play at NY C’s Public Theater, earning him an over award win and a drama league award nomination.

Also, he became the youngest show running in television history, as well as the co-creator and executive producer of the groundbreaking sitcom for Miss Pat Show, which has gone on to receive multiple Emmy nominations. In his late twenties, he became the youngest African American playwright in the history of Broadway when his play ain’t no more Open.

Cooper was including Forbes prestigious 30 under 30 lifts in 2024, and Danny Fairs the season’s brightest Broadway stars list in 2023. In 2022, he was awarded an African American Film Critic Association Award for Breakout Creative and was a nominee at the Native Sun Awards. I’m John O. Hanson Jr. And welcome to another edition of In Black America on this week’s program, multi-talented Jordan E. Cooper. In Black America.

Jordan Cooper: And I started writing from that place. And what’s, what’s interesting about my playwriting process is that whenever I sit down to write, I always learn something new by the time I finish. Um, so by the time I write, end of play, what I sat down to write is something completely different or.

I learned something about myself from my own theory on the world, and with Ain’t No Mode, you know, the idea of like, oh, let’s get on a plane. Let’s just leave. Right? It’s, it is, it’s funny and it’s like, okay, yeah, let’s do it. Let’s give up, let’s just leave. But then I started to realize that if I left. I will be giving up on everything that we built.

I’ll be giving up on everything that we fought for, that our ancestors fought for in this land that we built, because this is our country. There are two Americans. There’s their America, and there’s our America.

John Hanson: Celebrated for creating signature, multidimensional, profoundly human characters, and it’s clever cultural commentary on race, gender, sexuality, socioeconomic, and generational mindsets.

Cooper’s rapid rise shows no sign of slowing down. Cooper is now gearing up to open is new. Heidi anticipated stage production. Oh, API Day. The production which Cooper wrote, director and Stars in Reunites in with. Ain’t no more artistic director, Stevie Walker Webb and brings on board Grammy Award winning gospel artist Donald Lawrence, who scores production with original music.

Born and raised in Hearst, Texas, a suburb outside Dallas. Cooper knew from an early age he wanted to be an artist. He would put on shows in the living room. In that new Beginning Baptist church on Sundays, he joined a local production group while in the scenes in search of his writer’s voice. At 15, he was cast in a 2012 movie Wolf.

Today, Cooper has achieved what typically take decades to accomplish. Recently in Black America, spoke with Jordan E. Cooper. Hears Texas, Hearst, Texas, right outside of Dallas and Fort Worth. And tell us what was life like growing up there in Hearst? Um, it

Jordan Cooper: was, it was great. It was great. I mean, it was very different ’cause I always felt like I was, you know, the oddball out because I was always, you know, riding plays and, and acting and doing things that not many of my other students, well, another of my other like.

The student friends did. So it was, I always felt like the oddball out, but in a way that, that was cool and fun because, you know, I, I always talk about how when I was a kid, I used to, uh, sometimes it was hard for me to process homework or process education in a traditional way. So the way that I would always ask my teacher.

To show them that I comprehended what they were talking about was I would ask if I could put in my homework in the form of a script where I could like make, make characters talk in the form of a script so that way they could understand that I knew what I was, what they were telling me, but I just had to do it in my own little way.

John Hanson: Now, when did you realize that you had this special kind of talent that others didn’t have? Uh,

Jordan Cooper: I was probably around six or seven when I, I, I really became, you know, obsessed with telling stories. I just loved storytelling and I used to, you know, just always write a script and then ask the teacher if they could read it or ask a friend in class if they would read it and, you know, get their reaction.

And I was just always interested. Storytelling. And it happened very, very young. And I used to put on plays in the living room, and I always talk about how I would cut up my mom’s weave and my dad’s work uniform and create, you know, characters and costumes and put on plays. Um, and then my mom, uh, asked my pastor at our church if I could put on my plays at church on after church.

And so, thankfully, pastor Don Rogers at New Baptist Church in Memphis, in Hills, Texas. He was very kind enough to let that be my first stomping ground and let that let the church become my first theater where I was able to put on my plays.

John Hanson: Did you go off to college once you completed high school?

Jordan Cooper: I did. I, I came out to New York. I went to the New School for Performing Arts out here in New York, and that was about, um, about 11 years ago now. I moved out here in 2014 and then I just, you know, kept working and working from, from here. And it just grew and grew and grew. And then I did my first play, ain’t No Mo at the public theater, the one that went to Broadway.

And, and now this is my first time returning to the public theater with this new play or happy day. Um, it’s my first time being here since I did Ain’t No Mo right outta college. So it, it feels like a homecoming in a way.

John Hanson: So how did you come up with that idea for Ain’t No.

 Jordan Cooper: Brian know Mo really started from, you know, uh, I always talk about how I have a dark sense of humor.

I’m the person you gotta find something to laugh about at funerals. Uh mm-hmm. Something that, you know, allows you to, to, to find your way through the pain. And I really believe that. Finding your way through the pain and involves a lot of laughter. Um, and so the absurdity of the idea of like, you know, after watching all these unarmed black men get shot and, you know, the Charleston nine and all, all these things were happening around us, and I asked myself, well, why don’t we just all pack up everything and just move back to Africa?

What if we just all packed it all up and got on a plane and said, deuces to America? And I started writing from that place. And what’s what’s interesting about my playwriting process is that whenever I sit down to write, I always learn something new By the time I finish. So by the time I write, end of play, what I sat down to write is something completely different.

Or I learned something about myself from my own theory on the world. And with Ain’t No Mode, you know, the idea of like, oh, let’s get on a plane. Let’s just leave. Right? It it is, it’s funny and it’s like, okay, yeah, let’s do it. Let’s give up, let’s just leave. But then I started to realize. That if I left, I will be giving up on everything that we built.

I’ll be giving up on everything that we fought for, that our ancestors fought for in this land that we built, because this is our country. There are two Americas. There’s their America and there’s our America. So I had to reclaim my patriotism. I had to reclaim the idea that no, I, I can be a patriot because my America is soul trained and Oprah Winfrey and, and maid’s, preacher and Frankie Beverly and, and, and, and, and, you know, all that good times.

And the Jefferson, that’s my America. And so why would I give up my America that belongs to me and not fight for it? Um, rather than just hand it over to white supremacists. You know, uh, and that’s really what, what ain no mo taught me. And, and that was kind of the, the, uh, position of the play. You know,

John Hanson: now playwrights always talk about how hard it is to get a play produced.

How did you go about getting your produced.

Jordan Cooper: When I first moved to New York, I did a lot of self-producing. I just, you know, uh, I would say it don’t take money all the time. Sometimes it’s just about getting the work done. Don’t wait for the money before you do the work, you know? So I, I was doing plays in classrooms, I was doing plays in basements.

I was doing, I was, you know, doing what I could, where I could. Um, and then thankfully, you know, um, I did a reading of the Play, aint No Mo, uh, directed by Steve Walker Webb, and, and, uh, the public theater was at one of those readings. A, a representative from the public theater. Jack Phillips Moore and he, um, kind of just brought us here and, and, and they were like, okay, we would love to do this show with you.

We would love to tell this story. And I was able to tell that story and that’s really what opened the door for a lot of things for me, you know, with, I created the Miss Pat show on BT Plus, and Miss Pat got introduced to me because she saw that play. And she was like, oh, I feel like, you know, we have a similar sense of humor.

And so I created this entire sitcom out of that, but that, that door got opened from me doing the plays in the basements and the classrooms and things, you know, so I always tell people, never look at what you have, you know? Uh, uh, look at what you can do with what you have. You know,

John Hanson: I was getting ready to talk about Ms. Pat. I had interviewed her, uh, prior to the television show and. The type of humor in which you all are producing is kinda risque. So why did you feel that that type of humor would be, uh, accepted?

Jordan Cooper: Yeah, I feel like, you know, I, I never worry about if it’s accepted. I just kind of. I just kind of do it, and I always tell, you know, I always say it, it’s valid because it’s mine, you know, it’s valid because it, it makes me laugh and it makes, that’s also the beauty of like a sitcom, or at least the real sitcoms.

You know, I, I do a real sitcom with a live studio audience every, every week. So, so, you know, that’s the true litmus test is you have 200 people in the audience, and if they’re laughing then it works. And if they’re not laughing then, then don’t work, you know? But I’ve never been afraid. I just, I just don’t think life is too short to be afraid of what you gonna say.

You know, as long as you stand tendo down on what you gotta say and, and you believe it, and, and, and it’s a tension, is to bring joy. I, I think just, you know, say it, my goal with that show was I really wanted to, because when you think about the great sitcoms, right? You think about mm-hmm. Red Fox, right? You think about the Sanford stuff.

Now what you, what you got from Fred Sanford is that something completely different if you was to go see Red Fox live on stage, right? Uh, right. That was a kind of watered down version of him. And so when I think about people like that, or Richard Pryor who had a show for like three seconds, you know, but because the network sensor couldn’t take them.

I think about Miss Pat and I was like watching her comedy. I wa I was wanted to see if there was a way to bring that Def Jam comedy style that, like standup comedy rawness to a sitcom. And thankfully, you know, she believed that. She was like, all right, let’s do it. And we jumped with it and it, and it, it paid off.

We got BET their first nomination ever in 40 years of existence. You know, it paid off in a, in a, in a really big way. And I think people really appreciated being able to see, uh, reality and talk about hard discussions and hard conversations, uh, while laughing, uh, your butt off, you know?

John Hanson: That was my, my next question.

Obviously you all bring a a, a level of what’s going on in society, so why was that important for it to be included in, in the Miss Pat show?

Jordan Cooper: That’s what television is for, you know, that’s what entertainment is for. It’s a powerful tool, especially television. I always think about, you know, Norman Lear, um, with, you know, all the family in Bond and you know, the Jeffersons and Good Times, the producer of all that.

Think about when you think about on the family, he was on Nixon’s Millers. Because of the stories that they were tackling on all family. And I always say, if you are a comedy writer and you’re not on somebody’s angle list, you ain’t doing it right. Because you gotta, you gotta tell the truth. If anybody can tell the truth, it’s comedians, why do you think they want to pull the plug on Jimmy Kimmel so fast?

You know what I mean? It’s a, it’s, it’s a, because when you’re laughing, you’re listening and that’s a dangerous tool. And I really believe that, you know, with the Ms. Pat show, I try to imbue topics in situations where. You know, we give people the ability to have hard conversations that they otherwise wouldn’t necessarily have the language to have or know that they could have.

Or there’s all of a sudden they have something that explains the feelings that they have within them, or there’s something that represents their pain or their struggle or their victory. Um, and I think that’s always the goal with televisions. How do we reflect humanity in a, in the best way?

John Hanson: You think the streaming service is gonna be the next frontier for the work that you’re doing?

Jordan Cooper: I would like it to specifically when it comes to theater. You know, my goal with theater is I think all of it should be streamed. I think all of it should be accessible. ’cause I don’t think one negates the other. I don’t think, I don’t think, you know, making a Broadway show, uh, stream live on Netflix. Stops people from going to see it live.

I actually think it does the opposite. It actually makes people wanna experience it live because they loved it so much in the comfort of their own home. Just like little kids, you know, the kids are obsessed with Hamilton or they’re obsessed with PAW Patrol or whatever, and they’re gonna go see Paw Patrol live if Paw Patrol live is in town.

You know, I think, I think the theater has to evolve into how people consume entertainment. I don’t think it, it, it, it means getting rid of anything. I don’t think it means jeopardizing the ancient, uh, the ancient tradition of theater because theater can never be replaced at all. Because the thing about theater is when you sit down in the space, that moment will never happen again.

All the, everybody in that audience will never be in the same room ever again in life. That is a moment to cherish the fact that, that the people are telling you the story are just alive as you are. Their hearts are beating as yours are beating, they’re breathing. As you’re breathing. Y’all are all in a communal space.

Having to look at each other as human beings and have a story be dropped into your lab that is just rich. That there’s a reason why It’s, it’s, it’s the oldest form of entertainment. There’s a reason, and that’s a, there’s a reason why it’s never gonna go away because you can’t replace that. You can interact with the screen all day long, but there’s nothing like human interaction.

John Hanson: You’re listening to in Black America with John L.. Hanson, Jr. We’ll be back in just a moment.

Matt Largey: Tickets are running out for KUT’s. Next, ATXPlained live show October 29th at Bass Concert Hall. Brand new stories about bad movies, good food, and a mysterious figure among others.

I saw this as my sanctuary and I was like, this is where I’m going to perform until I die.

Join us for a TX. Explain live. October 29th at Bass Concert Hall. Get your tickets@texasperformingarts.org.

Support for At Explain comes from HEB, meals on Wheels, central Texas, FBF Law, and Austin Watershed Protections Grow green.org.

John Hanson: If you’re just joining us, I’m John L. Hanson Jr. And you’re listening to In Black America from KUT Radio and we speak with Jordan and Cooper, Tony Award nominated, actor, playwright, producer, and director.

Mr. Cooper, being an actor, does it add a, a additional element when you write plays or produce and direct. Television programs. Absolutely. I’m not one of those people who

Jordan Cooper: just throws myself in anything. I’m not, I’m not like, just like, I’m not like, just like, oh, I, I gotta do that, so let me do it. It’s, it’s always gotta be something that makes sense.

Like, you know, with the Miss Pat show, pat had been telling me to like be on it and, you know, give myself a role for many years and I didn’t do it until season four. Um, because it was like, it has to be something that makes sense. I never, I’m not one of those people. I, I like to focus on the story being good, you know what I mean?

And if me being in it involves the story being good and, and I feel like I can contribute to what needs to be said, then I’ll do it. But I never try to force it, you know? But I love, I love performing and I love performing, you know, in my own things as well as other things like, you know. Pick your Friday doing, doing that movie, you know, that was great.

I just love, I just love performing, I love storytelling in general,

John Hanson: being such a, a, a, a young person as you are now, how does that success that you’re having, having an effect on those that’s gonna come behind you?

Jordan Cooper: I hope, I, I hope. I just continue to open some doors. You know, that’s the goal is, is you, you, you march up a mountain through the woods and you hope you leave a footprint behind so somebody else can follow that trail.

You know, that’s always the goal is like, how do you, you know, keep the door open. Um, ’cause when you keep the door open, you keep your legacy alive.

John Hanson: I read somewhere that said that you were proud to be an intentional fool. What does that mean?

Jordan Cooper: Yeah. So an intentional fool to me means somebody who, the world is always gonna tell you what you can’t do.

The world is always gonna tell you that’s what’s impossible, and that it’s foolish to do it. And I think that sometimes you have to operate as an intentional fool. You have to operate in the, in the, your fear is not my fear. So what you think is foolish, I’m gonna go ahead and do it. With intention. And I think that I try to operate like that in all my career because every step of my life, every step of my career, somebody’s always told me what I can’t do.

Somebody’s always told me it was, it was, it’s never happened before. So you can’t do it. It’s impossible. That just doesn’t happen or that doesn’t work like that. And I move forward, foolishly, I move forward, uh, like the fool that they, that they think it is, you know? And when you move with intention in your foolishness.

It’s not foolishness at all in the traditional sense. It’s actually bravery and it’s, it’s, it’s actually, you know, you just moving with the vision that you’ve been given and not, not taking on other people’s fears.

John Hanson: Talk to us about Cookout Entertainment.

Jordan Cooper: Cookout was a, um, it’s, it, it really came to me because.

I wanted to create a production company for myself so I can, you know, produce and let have an engine behind my works as well as other works. But I always say, you know, community conversation and celebration is a recipe for liberation. Um, and that’s what I aim to do in everything that I do, is create community.

Celebration and conversation. And that’s, that’s really what cookout is. It’s, it’s, anytime you see Jordan Cooper on it, you’re gonna see cookout on it and you should feel like you’re at home in all of my work. And whether it’s you press and play, whether it’s you buying ticket to come sit at, at a play. Um, I want you to feel at home and I want you to feel like you’re a part of a community

John Hanson: with the individuals you work with thus far. Talk to us about working with Lee Daniels.

Jordan Cooper: Yeah, Lee’s amazing. You know, Lee Lee was the one who, who, you know, saw ain’t no more first and, and brought Miss Pat to come see it. Um, and he’s a producer on Miss Pat as well. He gave me my first TV job writing on the, in the writer’s room of Star. Mm-hmm. Um, he’s just kind of been like a really cool godfather in a way.

Like, like just somebody who has navigated the industry before, understands the industry and, and means to protect me through it, you know, and, and gimme advice and mentor me in a really special way that, you know, it, he really taught me how to leave the door open, you know? And, and it’s a, it’s a really beautiful relationship that, that we have.

That’s really cool. Especially like. He feels like I’m a son of his in the industry and then also, you know, just a godson in real life.

John Hanson: I feel you. I’ll be remiss if I ain’t talk about old happy days to gospel music.

 Jordan Cooper: Yes, yes. Uh oh. Happy day. Um, which is just an epic of a, of a play. It feels, it feels grate in its scale and very biblical.

It’s like my own kind of modern reimagining of Noah’s Ark, uh, at a family cookout in Mississippi. Um, but a lot of, a lot of things go down and it’s just family drama like, like you’ve never seen before. And Donald Lauren, the incredible Donald Lauren did the music for you were all original music for the show.

And so it’s, it’s just a special collaboration. And this cast is insane, absolutely amazing. They’re singing the roof off the place. Um, and we’re telling a really important story and one that I think a lot of people are gonna be able to relate to and see themselves in, uh, which is a privilege and it feels really special.

And tickets have been going fast. So I grudge everybody. If you wanna come, come check out our every day at the public theater. Make sure you get your ticket now. Um, because it, it’s going like crazy. It feels like we’re doing something really special, uh, down here. So I hope people get a chance to see it.

So we just got extended today, um, throughout November 2nd. Uh, so ’cause tickets have been selling so well, uh, everybody’s been buying ’em up, so, so we’re extending, uh, uh, a couple more weeks. So, uh, those tickets are available now, so people should just hop on them before they’re gone.

John Hanson: Where were you when you learned about the the Tony nomination?

Jordan Cooper: Was at home, uh, in Hearst, Texas in my childhood home with my family. Um, and we woke up early in the morning and, you know, watched the news just to see, you know, just in case they called my name. And not only did they call my name, but they called the, they called the place six times, you know? Uh, so it was, it was the little kid in me who was doing, you know, plays, makeshift plays in the living room.

Got to hear his name, uh, nominated for Tony Awards in that same living room.

John Hanson: Now when you’re doing your work, are there any particular playwright that you kind of admire and wanna mirror your work, uh, around what they’ve done? I mean,

Jordan Cooper: not exactly mirror, but there’s always, always feel like it’s the artists.

You’re, um, you are a gumbo of the people who inspire you,

John Hanson: right

Jordan Cooper: yeah, yeah. Yes. Um, you, you, you are inspired by, by so many people. There’s so many people that, you know, have, uh, inspired me and moved me. Um, from, you know, ELL Hurston to August Wilson, to Langston Hughes, to Steven Sondheim, to Norman Lear. Um, there, there, just so the, the Tyler Perry there.

So there’s so many people who like, growing up their work was just, you know, uh, I always saw a piece of myself in their DNA in some way, shape or form. Lucille Ball, you know, um, Buster Keaton, there’s, so it’s just a. It’s an eclectic group of people who make up my gumbo.

John Hanson: Now, when you do have an opportunity to go home, do you have a chance to, you know, go by the old high school and hopefully some of your instructors are still there, and give them a thank you for, for cheering you on and, and pointing you in the right direct.

Jordan Cooper: Absolutely. I’m usually able to go back. I went back to my elementary school the day before the Tony nominations, which is really nice.

Um, and I get a chance to, you know, I’m in touch with all of my former educators on Facebook and, you know, my childhood, um, elementary school principal went to go see me in the movie Freakier Friday, uh, this past week. And she posted it on Facebook and it was just kind of cool because the fact that, you know.

She, she was such an integral part of my life when I was younger, and the fact that she could just go to the movies with her friends and see me on the big screen is really, really cool.

Now, the work that you’ve done this far, are you working on any new projects?

All in all, happy Day land right now. This is the new, um, this is the, the, yeah, this is the fresh out the oven.

Uh, so I’m just, I’m just in the kitchen right now, uh, and, and ready to serve people ready to, you know, um, lay it in their laps and give ’em something good to eat.

John Hanson: Obviously you, you enjoy acting and you enjoy producing and riding places, either one over the other or is just, uh, all part of the gumbo, as you say.

Jordan Cooper: Yeah, I think it’s all part of gumbo. It’s all storytelling to me, you know? Um, I love creating worlds. I love being able to create. Um, there’s nothing like that. It’s very special. Um, there’s a song that Steven Sondheim wrote called Children in Art. Um, like those are the two things that you get to, you know, give to the world.

Um, and I think that, you know, there’s nothing like creating art. It’s nothing like it. But I also love performing because then that’s also a form of creating and, you know, um, making something come to life. So all of it feels special. As long as I’m telling a story, I’m happy.

John Hanson: Talk to us about Freaky of Friday, you in that?

Jordan Cooper: Yes, I am. I am. I’m in the movie Freaky of Friday with Lindsay Lohan and Jamie Lee Curtis. Um, it’s a, it’s a really fun Rob. It’s a sequel to, uh, the film Freaky Friday, which came out in 2003. Um, and now we we’re coming back and we, you know, everybody’s all grown up and Lindsay Lohan’s kids of her own in the film and, uh, she swaps with with her daughter.

Uh, and it’s a really, it is a really great film and it was a, was a blast to be a part of, a privilege to be a part of, um, because it was such a Disney gee growing up where I really loved Disney Channel and wanted to be one of those Disney kids. So it’s so cool that I was able to grow up and be a part of one of those films in a really fun way.

We had a blast making it.

John Hanson: Couple more questions. Mi Mr. Cooper, do you have an opportunity to, to talk to young people about what it takes to, to do what you do?

Jordan Cooper: Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. I, I often go speak at schools and old seminars and, you know, uh, I get a chance to do a lot of talk backs and book signings.

Uh, ’cause a NoMo is a, is a book that’s available. Mm-hmm. Uh, they’re out on Amazon or independent booksellers. So I get a chance to talk to people all the time and young people who are writers or actors or directors. And it’s always so beautiful to be able to, um. Connect and chat with them and, and, and be able to run into people who have such a passion for telling stories, you know, and always try to deposit whatever I can, uh, into them, uh, for whatever they need and whatever they, they’re here to pour out into the world.

John Hanson: How significant for Miss Pat to be in, uh, its fifth season?

Jordan Cooper: Oh, it’s amazing. I mean, that’s rare, especially nowadays, uh, nowadays in streaming, um, especially for a black show, you know, um, it’s, it’s, it’s really, really special. We really made something really special and I’m so glad that people are responding to it.

And season five is about to come out, um, soon. Um, and it’s, it’s our wildest season yet we have incredible guest stars, incredible guest stars and storylines are just. Insane. Um, I can’t wait for it. And they’re so relevant. They’re like crazy relevant. I can’t give it away, but I, I just can’t wait for people to see it, me

to see it.

John Hanson: Any final comments, Mr. Cooper?

Jordan Cooper: No, no. I’m, I’m good. Just thank you so much for having me.

John Hanson: Jordan E. Cooper, Tony Award, nominated actor, playwright, producer and director and founder of Cookout Entertainment. If you have questions, comments, or suggestions as to future in Black America programs, email us at In Black america@kut.org.

Also, let us know what radio station you heard us over. Don’t forget to subscribe to our podcast and follow us on Facebook nx. You can hear previous programs online@kut.org. Also, you can listen to a special collection of In Black America programs. At American Archive of Public Broadcasting, that’s American archives.org.

The views and opinions expressed on this program are not necessary those of this station or of the University of Texas at Austin. Until we have the opportunity again for technical producer David Alvarez. I’m John O. Hansen, Jr. Thank you for joining us today. Please join us again next week.

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You can find more shows like In Black America in the NPR Network in your favorite podcast out. I’m John L. Hanson, Jr.

Speaker 7: Sources and methods, the crown jewels of the intelligence community. Shorthand for how do we know what’s real, who told us? If you have those answers, you’re on the inside and NPR wants to bring you there from the Pentagon to the State Department to spy agencies.

Listen, to understand what’s really happening and what it means for you, sources and methods. The new National Security Podcast from NPR.