Austin Signal

We’ve been learning a lot about the Dog’s Head development over the past months, including the future plans a developer would like to see there; how little neighbors knew about the idea as it picked up steam; and the competing interests curious about the project. How those sides sought support from the city.

What are the necessary supplies to power data centers? A lot of water and plenty of electricity. We’ll tell you how much and how that impacts all of us.

Plus, a look ahead at a few art happenings this week in our area.

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The full transcript of this episode of Austin Signal is available on the KUT & KUTX Studio website. The transcript is also available as subtitles or captions on some podcast apps.

Jerry Quijano [00:00:08] We have been learning a lot about the Dog’s Head development over the past months, including the future plans the developer would like to see there, how little neighbors knew about the idea as it picked up steam, and the competing interests curious about that project. We’re going to tell you about the ways those sides sought support from the city. And we’re also trying to learn more about what data centers are and understand their impacts on our communities and its resources. What are the necessary supplies to power these centers? Well, a whole lot of water and plenty of electricity. We’ll tell you just how much and how that impacts all of us. That’s on today’s show.

KUT Announcer: Laurie Gallardo [00:00:42] The Austin Signal is a production of KUT News, hosted by Jerry Quijano.

Jerry Quijano [00:00:47] Plus, we’ve got a look ahead at a few art happenings this week here in our area. Plenty more show coming up after this. This is Austin Signal. Howdy out there, this is Austin Signal. I’m your host Jerry Kehannel. Thank you for being with us. It’s Wednesday, August 5th. The Dog’s Head development in Southeast Austin is moving forward after city council last month approved creation of a tax increment reinvestment zone, or TERS, for the project. But the multi-use development has been controversial from the start, with some neighbors saying there wasn’t enough community engagement ahead of key votes. Going on in the background were competing political campaigns trying to sway city council on the project. Here to tell us more is Andrea Ball. She covers growth development for our reporting partners over at Austin Current. Andrea, good to see you. Great to be here, Jerry. Okay, so we have been talking a lot about dog’s head development, and a lot has been happening in a short amount of time. So can you remind us why is this development, why has it been so controversial to begin with?

Andrea Ball [00:01:56] Well, it’s a really big piece of property. It’s four and a half square miles, 2,600 acres, and it’s very close. It’s Southeast Austin, and it is very close to the Colorado River. And I think one of the reasons it became so controversial is because although it had been in the works for quite a while, it popped up on the agenda in May, a consent agenda, actually, and they changed that. But the point was that they just kind of showed up. There had been no real community input. There had not been a lot of conversation. And people were concerned that a lot of issues had not been explored.

Jerry Quijano [00:02:31] Okay so your recent reporting was taking a look at two competing groups trying to influence city council. Tell us a little bit more about them, who are they and what are their goals.

Andrea Ball [00:02:39] So you can say one side are the developers who envision a city in a city. This is a large piece of property, as I’ve said, and they want business and industry and shops and homes and that kind of stuff. And they want to take what was a mining site, fill in the big pits that are left there and basically turn it into this community. They also talk about creating more access to the Colorado River. This other group is Neighbors that’s not a hugely populated area, but there are neighbors. There are environmentalists There are community members who are concerned about more development happening on the east side of austin without talking to the community members So they have not said Mostly kill this project forget it never develop that area. What they have said is stop slow down do the environmental studies, do the studies and talk to us about it.

Jerry Quijano [00:03:40] So how did these campaigns end up approaching city council? How did they try to sway them?

Andrea Ball [00:03:45] It’s really fascinating. So the Endeavor folks took a pretty modern approach, which is to use something, to create an ad that sort of follows where your demographic goes. You don’t take a big ad out in like the New York Times or whatever. You take an ad and it goes where the people that you want to influence go. So it did end up, one ad did end up on the New york Times Wordle page for one person. So I don’t know that it went to a million people, but it followed that demographic there. So that was to reach out to people where they are. They also were drumming up support from people who are involved in industry and real estate and people who see that area as a good potential. They were not trying to drum up community support from all parts of the city. In an obvious way. They were going with folks that they thought would be supportive the other side it was more grassroots, but like today grassroots like One of the participants, you know was had a big list that sent out 16,000 like texts and and emails others, you, know part of that group. They would do block walking and flyers They were really focused super locally

Jerry Quijano [00:05:06] So, some of the supporters who signed up to speak in front of council back on July 23rd, they appeared to be from outside of Austin that caught my interest. Tell us more about that.

Andrea Ball [00:05:16] Yeah, so there’s no rule at the city that says you have to live in the district, the city, the state. You can sign up your opinion no matter where you are. When I talked to the people from Dog’s Head, they said, we were not targeting people from New York to come and if I were going to do an ad in Myrtle, that’s not where I would go, like to just get, you know, so. Um What did happen, however, is that, you know, in a network, in a statewide network, people are like, Oh, yeah, I, I’m into I’m interested in that kind of development. I would like to see that kind of thing. I support that. So they would come from San Antonio and Houston, some came from out of state. Some of them may have been employees, some of them were just people who were plugged in.

Jerry Quijano [00:06:06] The TURS vote did pass, then there are more council decisions ahead, but this isn’t the end of the story. What’s next for this project, and are opponents going to continue to fight it?

Andrea Ball [00:06:16] Yeah, no one’s going away. That is the most remarkable thing about Austin, isn’t it? Like when people really think something, they continue to think it and they continue to fight for it, and that’s what I love about Austin. And so yeah, the folks who wanna see changes to the current plan are absolutely going to continue to show up to council meetings where it’s being discussed, where there might be a vote, that sort of thing. What I expect to see is Endeavor make more efforts. They have made efforts. They’re making more efforts, what they say they will, to reach out to the community, to explain things, ask what people are concerned about, answer questions, that sort of thing.

Jerry Quijano [00:06:57] All right, well, when there’s more reporting on what’s happening on Dog’s Head development, we will bring you that right here on Austin Signal. We have been speaking with Andrea Ball, Growth Development Reporter for Austin Current. They are KUT’s reporting partner as well as Austin Signal’s reporting partner. Andrea, always great to talk with you.

Andrea Ball [00:07:13] Always a pleasure to be here.

Jerry Quijano [00:07:18] All right, we are just about halfway through this week, and I can’t be the only one thinking about the weekend already. So for today’s Where the Art Is segment, we are joined by Art Beat editor Stephanie Federico to get us thinking about what is ahead this weekend. Howdy, Steph, good to see you.

Stephanie Federico [00:07:35] Good to see you. It’s never too early.

Jerry Quijano [00:07:37] It really isn’t. And you know, there’s always something going on in Austin that you really have to start thinking a few days ahead as to what might be shaking out so that I can make this, make that, and maybe screen a three-hour Odyssey movie somewhere in there. So let’s give some alternatives to spending three hours inside an Odyssey theater. Tell us a little bit about Midnight. What is that?

Stephanie Federico [00:08:00] So this is a play that’s put on by Summer Break Theater, and this is group of teachers and educators who are on their summer break. So it’s apparently this old school screwball comedy that takes place in the 1950s in the suites at the Ritz Carlton in New York, and it’s this desperate director’s meeting and it kind of descends into chaos. It’s making its Texas premiere, and that’s happening starting Thursday through the 15th at Stage Austin.

Jerry Quijano [00:08:29] Okay, that’s really interesting. I’ve never heard of that, an educator. You know, you see those games where teachers will play basketball or football in high school, but I’ve seen a fool on play. That sounds pretty intriguing. This next suggestion got a lot of people in the newsroom talking just about 30 minutes ago, and it was jazz. So tell us, what is this jazz that you speak of?

Stephanie Federico [00:08:49] Yeah, someone was saying that, you know, you reach a certain age and you’re suddenly a big jazz fan.

Jerry Quijano [00:08:54] I didn’t hear that part.

Stephanie Federico [00:08:56] Yeah, so I have never been to Parker Jazz Club. It’s downtown on 4th Street. Chris Kamura, quartet is playing and his band is going to be doing American songbook classics like Nat King Cole, Chet Baker, Frank Sinatra, Mel Torme, all that. I’ve not been to this space as I said, but you know, looking online, it looks like this really nice little intimate venue that is like the perfect setting to sit and listen to jazz, so. I would be interested in checking that out. They also do a live stream if you wanna just listen in your own home. So you can tune in that way.

Jerry Quijano [00:09:30] Okay, well as we’re seeing with The Odyssey, I keep mentioning The Odyssey but the classics never go out of style and it sounds like you can get a little taste of that this Saturday at, again, Parker Jazz Club. Okay, also Saturday, some second Saturday open studios, where is that happening?

Stephanie Federico [00:09:45] Yeah, that’s over at Art Hub ATX. That is this giant space that opened just a few years ago off I-35 near the Woodward Street exit. It’s this old insurance building, and you can tell it’s like very 70s, like wood paneling and the carpet and everything. They have more than 100 artist studios and galleries there, lots of cool stuff there, including the Good Dads studio, which I recommend. Lots of contemporary art, photography, printmaking. There’s going to be some tours, some vendor markets, some food trucks. There’s like a drop in ceramics class. I think, uh, this happens every second Saturday of the month from one to six.

Jerry Quijano [00:10:21] Okay, you can drop into the ceramics class, but please don’t drop your ceramics at the drop-in ceramics. Okay, we have a little bit of time here, and I don’t know if you caught it because I was trying to be real subtle with my foreshadowing, but I wanted to ask you about the Odyssey. Have you had a chance to catch it yet?

Stephanie Federico [00:10:37] I have not seen it yet.

Jerry Quijano [00:10:38] Okay, well, I was trying to hold out for a ticket at the Bullock, but they were extremely sold out. But you’ve already come to us once on Signal to talk about tickets being restocked. Is there a chance that’s happening here?

Stephanie Federico [00:10:50] I just read that they did add some new show times, like the Bullock, like you said, I’ve never been to an IMAX movie at the Bullok, but apparently this is the movie that you go to the IMAx for. So I think that’s really cool. I guess the demand was super high and people were waiting hours and all that stuff.

Jerry Quijano [00:11:07] And now the students are going to be coming back to the university soon and I’m sure more people would be we need to 24-hour screenings here at the Bullock. I don’t know who’s gonna work them, but we need those. All right. That is Stephanie Federico She is the editor of our art beats Stephanie great to chat with you

Stephanie Federico [00:11:22] Great to chat with you, Jerry.

Jerry Quijano [00:11:23] Alright, this is Austin Signal. We’ll be back after a break. This is Austin Signal, welcome back. This week, Texas Governor Greg Abbott ordered a pause on new data centers until more is known about how much power and water each of those projects need. Democrats in the Texas Senate meanwhile are calling for a complete moratorium on new data centers, until the legislature meets to pass new rules for them. Water and electricity are two of the major factors in the opposition to data centers but How much of these things do they actually use, and what does that mean for the rest of us? In the second part of our series, The Data Center Next Door, KUT’s Kaylee Hunt, Katie McAfee and Lee Walden tried to corral some answers.

Katy McAfee [00:12:12] Tori Martin’s horses run straight for her when they spot her at the top of the hill.

Leigh Walden [00:12:18] Stepping out of the truck, Martin is immediately surrounded. Whoop you, did you knock the free branch down? Each horse is vying for attention, winning and nudging her with their noses.

Kailey Hunt [00:12:32] Martin has been raising animals her entire life.

Tori Martin [00:12:35] Taught me a lot of patience. Things don’t always go your way. You just try again. You ask more politely maybe. Asking firmer doesn’t usually get the job done.

Katy McAfee [00:12:47] These days.

Leigh Walden [00:12:47] Martin is learning how to ask for things firmer and she’s becoming increasingly impatient with some humans at least

Kailey Hunt [00:12:55] particularly the humans who want to build a data center next to her ranch just outside San Marcos.

Tori Martin [00:13:00] We’d be backing up to our fence line for about 40 acres this direction. And it would be an AI data center. A developer.

Katy McAfee [00:13:10] Proposed the data center about a year ago. Since then, Martin’s been working alongside activists in the area to try to fight it.

Tori Martin [00:13:17] Land is the only thing they’re not making more of, and I would, you know, hate to not be able to raise kids in the same environment I was able to be raised in.

Kailey Hunt [00:13:28] There’s lots of development happening around Martin’s ranch, and it’s been putting stress on nearby infrastructure.

Leigh Walden [00:13:34] Her neighborhood already deals with brown-outs and water outages. Martin blames it on all the new building in the area. If a data center moves in, she’s worried about the county keeping up. She’s not the only one. I call this regular meeting of the San Marcos City Council to order. Today is Tuesday, February 17th. It’s February of this year. Hundreds of people spill onto the lawn outside of San Marcas City Hall.

Council Member [00:13:56] Mr. Rodriguez here. Mr. Garza.

Leigh Walden [00:14:00] The council.

Kailey Hunt [00:14:00] Chambers themselves are packed. So is the overflow room and the lobby.

Katy McAfee [00:14:05] The council is set to discuss the development behind…

Leigh Walden [00:14:08] Martin’s ranch. The clipboard where people sign up for public comment has a thick stack of pages with line after line of names.

Kailey Hunt [00:14:15] On it are business owners, students, parents, just regular people, Democrats and Republicans. Most have come to oppose the data center. Their methods of persuasion vary.

Community Member 1 [00:14:27] You say no to this and there is a grand celebration. Everyone in the yard is happy. People are gonna go jump in the river. They’re gonna go out. People are going to get laid tonight if you say no.

Katy McAfee [00:14:39] Just to say, hundreds of speakers at the meeting are passionate. They’re worried about how a data center will change the culture of the town.

Leigh Walden [00:14:45] We are sacrificing our identity as a city. They’re worried about their energy bills. When the electricity bills go up, that will be on all of you that have voted yes to this. But they’re mostly worried about water. Data centers consume vast quantities of water. I am incredibly concerned about future water security.

Community member2 [00:15:04] I want y’all, put y’alls money where your mouth is because you’re literally taking water out of our mouth.

Katy McAfee [00:15:08] In my culture, we say agua es vida, meaning water is life. Water. Water. Water. Water. Water. But how much water do data centers actually use? Does anyone really know?

Leigh Walden [00:15:22] We called Margaret Cook to find out. She researches water supply at the Houston Advanced Research Center.

Margaret Cook [00:15:28] I’ve been working on water energy nexus issues for…

Kailey Hunt [00:15:31] About 15 years. She says there is an answer to how much water data centers use, just not a satisfying one. The clear answer to the general question is it depends.

Katy McAfee [00:15:42] It depends on two things, how big a data center is and how.

Kailey Hunt [00:15:47] It’s cooled. Remember the servers in a data center run constantly and generate a ton of heat and that heat needs to be dissipated somehow or the computers can burn out in minutes. Most data centers either use air

Katy McAfee [00:15:59] or water to cool its servers. Cook says, air works fine for data centers built in cold climates, but it’s hot in Texas.

Margaret Cook [00:16:07] Water is much more efficient at cooling than air is. That’s why on a hot day, you’d probably rather jump in a pool than stand under a tree.

Leigh Walden [00:16:16] Many data centers rely on what’s called evaporative cooling. That’s where water absorbs heat from the servers, causing it to eva-

Kailey Hunt [00:16:24] Cook says evaporative cooling is an energy-efficient way of cooling a data center, but it uses a ton of water.

Leigh Walden [00:16:32] Then there’s a closed loop system. In a closed-loop, a coolant gets looped through a data center, pulling heat off of servers. As the fluid moves through the system, it gets hotter and hotter, and something else needs to cool it back down for the closed loop to work. Cook says to think about your body as an example.

Margaret Cook [00:16:48] You can’t cool down unless something takes heat off of you. So you’re gonna sweat and the wind’s gonna or the air is gonna pull the sweat off of you and that’s how your body cools. And then your skin and your blood cool down and that to close loop system.

Katy McAfee [00:17:03] Cook says more and more data centers are using this method, but closed loop systems have a catch.

Leigh Walden [00:17:08] Just like how your body cools itself, some data centers use an air chiller to cool down that fluid. In that case, a data center’s overall water usage would be pretty small. They only need water for things like landscaping and flushing toilets. But some data center use water chillers to cool that fluid, Cook says, in that case a closed loop system can…

Margaret Cook [00:17:28] Still be very water intensive. And our estimates on using a water chiller for a hyperscale data center do show that water use could get to half a billion gallons.

Kailey Hunt [00:17:41] Cook says your average data center likely uses about 60 million gallons of water a year, around what an 18-hole golf course uses.

Katy McAfee [00:17:50] But the new ones, the hyperscalers that Cook’s talking about that are being built to do.

Leigh Walden [00:17:54] In a worst case scenario, those can drink up more than a billion gallons of water in a year.

Margaret Cook [00:18:00] That would have to be a really water-intensive cooling strategy. And that’s not something that’s usually chosen in Texas.

Katy McAfee [00:18:08] Even if it was, Cook wouldn’t know. The truth is, the state doesn’t even know.

Kailey Hunt [00:18:13] And they’ve tried asking twice. Earlier this year, the Public Utility Commission sent out a survey asking for details about each data center’s water use.

Leigh Walden [00:18:23] Texas House Committee hearing, State Rep. Mary Gonzalez asked a data center industry representative

Mary Gonzalez [00:18:28] How many of your member entities filled out the survey sent out by the state?

Kailey Hunt [00:18:36] Less than a third of the state’s 341 data centers responded.

Katy McAfee [00:18:42] Survey, the state’s Water Development Board asked data centers how much they’re using.

Leigh Walden [00:18:45] Only 17% of them responded, despite it being required by law.

Brad Buckley [00:18:49] Just so I understand, so the response rate that you speak of, is that the same data you’re collecting for state water planning?

Kailey Hunt [00:18:56] But that’s Representative Brad Buckley, a Republican from Bell County. He’s talking to Temple McKinnon. She oversees the state’s water supply planning. Yes, sir.

Mary Gonzalez [00:19:06] It’s the bedrock of our state water plan.

Brad Buckley [00:19:08] Okay, so we’re building a state water plan off of the 17 percent response rate. Is that an overstatement? Well, it’s… Yeah, so, we have to do a lot of, whatever you call it, extrapolation. Yes, we do. Yeah, I mean, that is a terrible response rate

Leigh Walden [00:19:23] Not knowing how much water is being used now makes it harder to plan for Texas’ future water needs. But that’s not the only problem. We also don’t know how much electricity we’ll need to power all of these data centers. And how all of that new demand is going to affect the price of electricity.

Allison Silverstein [00:19:39] Electric prices have already gone up 20 to 25 percent since 2020. In Texas alone, they’ve gone up 29 percent.

Kailey Hunt [00:19:48] Allison Silverstein is a former state

Katy McAfee [00:19:51] and federal energy regulator. Now, there’s lots of things contributing to those higher electricity prices. Aging infrastructure, supply chain issues.

Kailey Hunt [00:20:00] And more high demand projects like data centers. They need things like more high voltage transmission lines and more power plants.

Allison Silverstein [00:20:08] Those cost increases within ERCOT for transmission are assigned across every retail customer in Texas. So there is no escaping those.

Katy McAfee [00:20:21] Even if there’s no data center being built in your neighborhood, your wallet might still feel it. This is something that worries a lot of people.

Kailey Hunt [00:20:28] Including, at least lately, state officials. Here’s Governor Greg Abbott at a campaign stop last month.

Greg Abbott [00:20:34] Any AI data center even thinking about coming here, they got to bring their own money, bring their own power, reuse their own water, and do it in a way that reduces the cost of electricity for residents across our state.

Katy McAfee [00:20:48] Developers do sometimes plan to bring their own power generation, like putting in a natural gas

Leigh Walden [00:20:53] power plant right next door to their data center. But Allison Silverstein says that doesn’t really solve

Allison Silverstein [00:20:59] the whole problem. Even if they are building all these energy resources inside the fence of the facility, they are still increasing costs for everybody.

Katy McAfee [00:21:11] Silverstein says that data centers are.

Leigh Walden [00:21:13] Mostly cost indifferent. Meaning when there’s steep competition for resources like transformers and gas turbines, things needed for electricity generation, they’ll pay a lot more to get to the front of the line. That means the people selling that stuff can charge more for it. So when your local utility needs to buy a new transformer or gas turbine, they also have to dish out more cash. And this goes beyond infrastructure to all parts of energy generation. From natural gas prices to paying plumbers and electricians. ERCOT has gotten requests for almost 500 gigawatts of power from the Texas grid. That’s enough electricity to power every home in America.

Brian Korgel [00:21:51] All of that is definitely not gonna come online, but the question is, well, how much of it will?

Kailey Hunt [00:21:57] Brian Korgel is the director of UT Austin’s Energy Institute. He says the majority of those requests come from data centers.

Brian Korgel [00:22:05] Are we really going to double our grid, or will it more be like a 20% increase or something over five years? And even that increase is going to be pretty massive.

Katy McAfee [00:22:14] That uncertainty is a huge challenge for ERCOT. They know they need to expand the grid’s capacity to account for these new electricity users, but they don’t know.

Kailey Hunt [00:22:24] By how much. That’s part of why this week Governor Abbott ordered a pause on data centers trying to connect to the grid. He wants the state to get a better idea of their water

Katy McAfee [00:22:33] electricity needs.

Brian Korgel [00:22:35] What’s gonna happen is that data centers won’t get built. So the big question is, you know, can Texas keep up with this promise of economic development?

Katy McAfee [00:22:47] That’s the question elected officials across the state are asking themselves.

Leigh Walden [00:22:52] Council are we ready to vote? Okay. It’s been hours since the start of the City Council meeting in San Marcos. Yes, and we only need four for that.

Kailey Hunt [00:23:02] After hearing testimony from hundreds of community members, the council is ready to take a vote.

Council Member [00:23:09] Okay, the motion passes five to two with two council members saying no with Councilmember Mendoza-Gonzalez.

Katy McAfee [00:23:15] The council votes to block the data center in Tory Martin’s backyard.

Council Member [00:23:19] So, hold on a second, hold just one second, let’s get clarity.

Leigh Walden [00:23:25] It’s 2 a.m. On a Wednesday morning after an eight-hour meeting, and folks won’t stop cheering.

Tori Martin [00:23:32] Which means the zoning item, hold on y’all, hold on.

Kailey Hunt [00:23:40] But in the council chambers, some members, even those who voted to block it, see this as a missed opportunity.

Community member2 [00:23:46] We have like this golden goose egg here though that could have solved a lot of economic stuff. And I just want, I want to say that out loud because I don’t want to be disingenuous.

Kailey Hunt [00:23:55] That’s Councilmember Josh Poselk. He doesn’t think it’s a matter of this data center getting built or not built. He thinks it’s just a matter of where it’ll go and who gets to benefit.

Community member2 [00:24:05] I know that there’s other data centers being proposed and come across the way and man, it’s if we get one that goes right across the street, you know, and we had an opportunity at really a good option for us. I understand all the drawbacks that have been paid out here so I’m not trying to discredit that and thank you for your time for bringing that to our attention. But the economic piece of this is very important.

Leigh Walden [00:24:31] But are data centers really a golden goose egg for a community? How much do they lift up local economy?

Kailey Hunt [00:24:38] And how long does that lift last? That’s next week.

Leigh Walden [00:24:43] Center next door. I’m Kaylee Hunt, I’m Katie McAfee, and I’m Lee Walden in San Marcos.

Jerry Quijano [00:24:49] And you can find the first story in this series over at our website, KUT.org, and listen each Wednesday in August for the rest of the stories in our Data Center Next Door series. Well, that is it for us today here on Austin Signal. There’s more about the stories we shared with you in today’s podcast show notes and at KUT dot org slash signal. Rene Chavez is our technical director, Alexandra Hart is our producer, and Kristen Cabrera is our managing producer. I’m your host, Jerry Kikano. Austin Signal is back at the same time tomorrow. We’ll talk to you then.

This transcript was transcribed by AI, and lightly edited by a human. Accuracy may vary. This text may be revised in the future.