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This week on In Black America, producer and host John L. Hanson, Jr. speaks with Greg Kaplan, founder of the Kaplan Educational Group and author of The Journey: How to Prepare Kids for a Competitive and Changing World. An internationally recognized college admissions strategist, Kaplan discusses his effort to help students and their parents prepare for the college admissions process.
The full transcript of this episode of In Black America is available on the KUT & KUTX Studio website. The transcript is also available as subtitles or captions on some podcast apps.
Announcer From the University of Texas at Austin, KUT Radio, this is In Black America.
Greg Kaplan No, you’re not starting late. I think high school is the perfect time to be mindful because a lot of parents and I’m on the cusp of becoming one myself. A lot of parents, You want to do everything you can to help your child grow and succeed. But sometimes that does require you to check yourself and ask, Am I doing too much? Because when we have 40% of millennials who are not financially independent and rely on mom and dad for financial assistance, and again, it’s a tough economy where you have 33% of Gen Z, ages 18 to 24 who are neither going to work nor going to school. We have to ask ourselves is what is inhibiting them from launching on their own? And so it’s never too late to start thinking about the long term picture. It’s just a call to action to be mindful of as you’re getting ready to send someone off to school or that journey to get them to that point is, am I going to actually help them reach that goal?
John L. Hanson Jr. Greg Kaplan, founder of the Kaplan Educational Group and author of The Journey: How to Prepare Kids for a Competitive and Changing World. Kaplan, an internationally recognized college admissions strategist, has assisted hundreds of high school seniors and over 1000 underclassmen reached their educational and career potential. Kaplan draws on experience as an investment banker and lawyer to tie one’s education to their long term goals. In his book The Journey, Kaplan provides valuable information for parents and young people and encourages families to work together in healthy ways to prepare their child for their next steps. He paints a realistic picture of the lack of preparedness among today’s youth, using stories of parents and students who have struggled and succeeded. I’m John L. Hanson Jr. and welcome to another edition of In Black America. On this week’s program, The Journey with Greg Kaplan In Black America.
Greg Kaplan Where one goes to college, is not who they will become. And there’s not one college that has a monopoly on the path to success. I tell everyone we work with and I write about this in the book. I had better job prospects coming out of an unranked law school at the time, which was UC Irvine, than I did coming out of the Wharton School business at Penn. And so I’m not a school snob. And I think there’s so much pressure and I think a lot of parents think if my kid goes to fill in the name of the blank fancy school, that they’ll be set for life. That’s not how it works. It’s about making the most of that. There are more graduate from San Jose State University, the university that some of the audience may have never even heard of before working in Silicon Valley than there are from the entire Ivy League put together. And I think we need to have these kinds of conversations. Let’s do your best, but make this process work for you.
John L. Hanson Jr. Today, our young people face an increasing medley of challenges as they pursue higher education. The rising cost of tuition, daunting prospective student debt, and a talented and competitive applicant pool. After a decade of preparing students for the ever more difficult admission process. College counselor Greg Kaplan How parents would stop thinking What should I do to get my child into a good college? And instead ask, How can I best prepare my child for what comes next? In his book The Journey, Kaplan uses his knowledge as an investment banker and lawyer to help parents and students navigate the minefield of college admission. Kaplan goes beyond the well-documented college admission madness and cuts to the core of parental anxiety. The Living, a definitive guide that shares what parents can do to help their child make the most of the opportunities they will encounter in the future. Recently In Black America spoke with Greg Kaplan.
Greg Kaplan I was born in Tucson, Arizona, raised in San Diego, California. And I’ve always lived, I guess besides college, always lived to hit close to the border of Mexico.
John L. Hanson Jr. And the standing that you have a background in banking and economics.
Greg Kaplan Sure. Yeah. I studied finance at the University of Pennsylvania, worked on Wall Street, burnt out in the most spectacular fashion you can imagine at the ripe age of 25, waking up in a hospital, being told to kind of get my life together by a cardiologist in a foreign country, and then ended up going to law school. And that’s where I started the Kaplan Educational, where we help students figure out how to make the most of their journey to college and career.
John L. Hanson Jr. And what sparked that interest in assisting young people in the journey to be whatever they want to be in life?
Greg Kaplan You know, I think it comes from being a from a very young age. My mom grew up in an abusive household where not only was it abusive, but women weren’t allowed to pursue any form of education. And so it was as a young age, it was education was always instilled in us is such a privilege. It’s a gift and it’s something we need to make the most of. And with that mindset, I remember showing up to my to my senior year of high school guidance counselor. And when it’s time to apply to college at a stack of applications and my and I asked my counselor. Asking to help her as she could. Help me. Excuse me. And what she said to me was, I have 1100 other students. I went to the largest public high school in the state of California at the time. And I just go to community college and save your parents a ton of money. And it was kind of a slap in the face to everything that I had been working so hard for my whole life. And this responsibility, I had to get an education. And so I figured out how to tell my story to earn admission to college. And that was something I did with law school and something that I just gosh, I really enjoy that process of figuring oneself out as it relates to getting into college. And here I am. That’s what I do all day, every day for other people.
John L. Hanson Jr. Obviously you had an experience that obviously touched you to the point that you wanted to help other individuals. Why an important one that you wrote this book, but prior to answering that question, there are other literature that you’ve done before. Talk to us about that before you answer the first question.
Greg Kaplan Sure. So I went to law school without really knowing what I wanted to do as a lawyer. And I, on the first day of law school, realized, gosh, this is in for me. And I felt very lost. And so I spent the three years of law school trying to really figure out what it is that made me happy or what am I good at. And I arrived at the answer of I’m really good at getting into school. Getting school paid for because I have full scholarship to law school and getting jobs that everyone else wants that I just don’t like. So that made me ask, why don’t I write a book about how to get into college? And my first book called Earning Admission Real Strategies for Getting into Highly Selective Colleges. I self-published it and I ended up writing about, you know, for particularly for the Asian-American community, concerns about being overrepresented at selective, selective universities, about how do you write about your identity and college applications. And people started calling me asking if I’d work with their kids. And even though that was a business and I said, sure. And, you know, you know, that was in 2016. And over the last seven years until I wrote the Journey, what I noticed was that I saw behavior patterns and challenges that young people, even if they were getting if they were being admitted to the University of Texas at Austin or Stanford or Harvard, that there were serious challenges that they were facing that I thought could potentially inhibit them from being a healthy, happy and financially independent adult. And so I wrote the journey to encourage both students and their families to take a long term view on what does it take to be a healthy, happy and financially independent adult. And making sure that the parents are supporting their their kids in healthy ways and that kids are taking the initiative to grow into the people that they want to become.
John L. Hanson Jr. Are we starting late, late being that student and parents? The child is in high school and they’re considering a college four years down the road.
Greg Kaplan No, you’re not starting late. I think high school is the perfect time to be mindful because a lot of parents and I’m on the cusp of becoming one myself. A lot of parents, you want to do everything you can to help your child grow and succeed. But sometimes that does require you to check yourself and ask, Am I doing too much? Because when we have 40% of millennials who are not financially independent and rely on mom and dad for financial assistance, and again, it’s a tough economy, or you have 33% of Gen Z ages 18 to 24 who are neither going to work nor going to school. We have to ask ourselves what is inhibiting them from launching on their own. And so it’s never too late to start thinking about the long term picture. It’s just a call to action to be mindful of as you’re getting ready to send someone off to school or that journey to get them to that point is, am I going to actually help them reach that goal?
John L. Hanson Jr. Now, where do you start that process?
Greg Kaplan I would say when you’re heading off to high school and when you’re signing up for classes for freshman year, it’s, you know, we’re at the start of a new school year. It’s maybe a month or so in at the time of this conversation is, am I letting my kid figure out how to do their homework on their own? Am I encouraging them to develop grit? Am I encouraging them to develop leadership skills and by encouraging them to develop and discover their passions rather than just asking like, how do I get my kid into Rice or Northwestern University? What kinds of conversations are we having with ourselves and our kids? And so it’s never too late. Even if have a child who’s a senior in high school, this is still an appropriate conversation to have. It’s never too late to have.
John L. Hanson Jr. Obviously, at a young age, these young people don’t know really what they want to do. But should they have some kind of idea what they want to get out of life?
Greg Kaplan We’re in an era of immense change, and that’s okay. And I think there’s so much pressure on young people to say, I don’t have it all figured out. And that gives them so much anxiety and that is fair. But I think a better way to reframe it is what kinds of skills or perspective can I be gaining right now that will allow me when I do figure out what I want out of life? That I’ll be able to do it. And it’s never too late to start or early to start discovering it, because when I have a young person in my office, this is I’m thinking about becoming a doctor. It’s okay. Why don’t we start volunteering at a hospital and see if you like that? Because if you don’t like it, that’s okay. And if you do like it, let’s find other ways for you to develop that. So it’s okay not to know what we want to do when we grow up. But what’s not okay is not to make any efforts to try to figure out what we like and just importantly, what we don’t like.
John L. Hanson Jr. I assume that the anxiety level is is high, considering certain students want to go to certain institutions and that may not be what happens. How do you how do you navigate through what you want to do and what you’re able to do as far as attending the college of your choice?
Greg Kaplan Great question. I’m so glad you asked that. Where one goes to college is not who they will become. And there is not one college that has a monopoly on the path to success. I tell every school we work with and I write about this in the book. I had better job prospects coming out of an unranked law school at the time, which was UC Irvine, than I did coming out of the Warren School of Business at Penn. And so I’m not a school snob. And I think there’s so much pressure and I think a lot of parents think if my kid goes to fill in the name of the blank fancy school, that they’ll be set for life. That’s not how it works. It’s about making the most of that. There are more graduates from San Jose State University, the university that some of the audience may have never even heard of before working in Silicon Valley than there are from the entire Ivy League put together. And I think we need to have these kinds of conversations. Let’s do your best to make this process work for you, because once you adopt that mindset, it does take off so much of the pressure and it lessens the anxiety because if the anxiety is, I’m not going to be successful unless I go to that school, that’s not true.
John L. Hanson Jr. Obviously, the cost of a college degree is is more expensive than it has been in years past. Is that a consideration in this process?
Greg Kaplan It should be. It absolutely should be, because student loans and the trillions of dollars that Americans hold in it are inhibiting them from chasing their dreams. It’s very hard to go start a business or to go pursue higher education or to potentially consider buying a home as expensive as that is today in 2024. When you have significant student loans. So I think part of this discussion for college and where we’re applying to should also be what makes financial sense. For me, as a 17 year old today and for my parents and also for the type of life I want to be living when I’m 25, 35, 45, and being honest with ourselves about the return on investment. So we do need to be mindful about the cost. And when we think about a college education, it’s an investment of time of also financial resources. One way to maximize that investment is to decrease the cost.
John L. Hanson Jr. Now, you articulated that when you went to a guidance counselor while you’re in high school. Obviously that individual didn’t have time to to to talk to you about your future choices. High schools able to to to give students some good advice as far as leading them towards the knowledgeable conclusion of what they want to do with their life and colleges they want to attain.
Greg Kaplan There are some amazing guidance counselors out there, and they’re amazing public, private, parochial schools. I think today what schools are feeling so much stress with the mental health crisis that’s plaguing young Americans today and in the shortfalls that became very pronounced during the pandemic with Curriculum Foundation. So I think a lot of counselors every day are doing triage with students to make sure that they’re healthy and that they’re going to graduate high school. And as a result, that the journey to college sometimes takes a back seat. And I’m not blaming schools whatsoever. I think they’re doing everything we can and they’re being asked to do too much. And there are so many attacks on school administrators over curriculum in the culture wars, over book bands and things like that. And so I think it’s I don’t I don’t know if schools have the bandwidth. And so it really does become important for families to take the lead on this because we can’t assume that the school counselors, while they may have your kids best interests at heart, just may not have the ability to have these types of conversations just by the nature of what schools are facing today.
John L. Hanson Jr. Yeah, I understand. It was just joining us. I’m John L. Hanson Jr. and you’re listening to In Black America from KUT Radio. And we’re speaking with Greg Kaplan, founder of Capital Education Group and author of The Journey: How to Prepare Kids for a Competitive and Changing World. Mr. Kaplan, when you look back at your experience and looking at today’s students, when should individuals start taking those tests? The ACT and the SAT.
Greg Kaplan I’m glad you bring that up because there’s a lot of confusion today about the ACTU, the ACTU. And the first is, should my child even take it to begin with? Some schools. Particularly the most selective school United States think the Ivies and the schools in the South, like the University of Georgia or Georgia Tech. These schools have re-introduced testing requirements as part of their admissions process to even be admitted. But what I always tell folks is that the city or city are one of the primary factors for merit scholarships at universities that offer it, because colleges are ranked in large part on their incoming class average for test scores. And so if you are concerned about the cost of college, which everyone should be given, how expensive is today? One of the best ways to minimize the cost of it is by getting a test score that is above the average of that school. And so we encourage every student that we work with at a minimum, to take a diagnostic S.A.T. or AZT when they are taking Algebra two or integrated math three. If they’re on a Common Core curriculum, that could be in 10th grade, that could be in 11th grade. So it depends on the math foundation of the of the student or the applicant. And if they want to go to a very selective school, they should plan on studying for it, because 75% of students who apply to selective universities submit a test scores. And again, it is one of the primary factors for merit scholarships. And so on the subject of cost. A student who gets a 1400 on the S.A.T. or 32 on the A.C.T. can go to the University of Alabama with a, I believe, $30,000 merit scholarship per year automatically. The same is true with the University of Arizona. So the tuition is now even for out-of-state applicants, less than $3,000 per year. And so I always tell students there’s very little we can do unless I become a famous tik-tok influencer where they could spend 100 hours studying for test and maybe pay for 100,000 plus or more college. So I think it’s a really good use of time.
John L. Hanson Jr. As you say that. What are the courses that students should consider taking if they’re going to go to college? You remember when I was in high school to college prep courses, but there are other courses nowadays that students would need to take in order to increase the chances of actually attending college.
Greg Kaplan That is different for every single school here in California. There are an aide through G. We use letters Acer G, A’s, history, B is English, so on and so on. And so it depends on your goals. But what I would say is the California state standards for college admission work for every single state in the United States because they’re the most stringent, because the University of California system is receive the most applicants. So the standards in terms of the specific courses. So that’s four years of English. That’s three years of math. That’s two years of a lab science, two years of a world language. Those are really great standards. Three years of a history, one year of an hour. And that’s what we tell all students to do.
John L. Hanson Jr. The elephant in the room is race. Now that most colleges and universities can’t use race as part of their mission criteria, how is that changing the landscape of what you do in overall institutions of higher learning?
Greg Kaplan I’m glad you asked that question. The U.S. Department of Education. So we’re having this conversation and we’re recording this in September of 2024. And the Department of Education, the role of race in college admissions. Affirmative action was deemed constitutionally impermissible by the current U.S. Supreme Court, overturning over 25 years of jurisprudence where it was deemed permissible because of the value that diversity plays in higher education. And it was hard to see the data that just came out in the last 30 days that showed enrollment of historically underrepresented backgrounds, particularly African-Americans and Hispanic Americans, has fallen precipitously at top, you know, at the most selective university. And so what I tell folks, and this is also true by a ballot box initiative in 1996, in California, when voters went to the polls to vote against using affirmative action in undergraduate education. So we are seeing declines in enrollments. The groups that I think stand to benefit the most from having policies designed to make sure that that these universities reflect the broader makeup of our country. And I think you’re going to see those declines continue, which is going to undermine the integrity of these universities. I think with what’s been going on with all these campus protests over, you know, the response to the terrorist attack in Israel is that colleges are very scared to come out and make any political statements whatsoever. Right now, the University of Pennsylvania at Harvard both banned any form of a response to any political circumstances that don’t affect the universities because of the protests that have happened. So I think colleges are being very cautious. There are certain special interest groups that are committed to abolishing any form of considering race in life. They’re the ones that brought the lawsuit to end affirmative action there. They’re under constant threat of being sued by these groups. We’re now going to be targeting law firms, investment banks. And. And I think we need to be. What what this says is like, you know, there are I have my opinions and others may disagree, but what I think this makes is so important is if we are committed to making sure that everyone has a fair shake. Getting into these universities is that, again, it’s going to come down to families to make sure that they’re more prepared. Because I don’t think we can assume that colleges are going to be able to go to the lengths that they’ve done in the past to ensure that everyone has access to schools. So we may have to work a little harder. And I don’t. I think that, you know, some. And again, the audience, like you and I may say that that’s and that’s that’s unfortunate. And others on the other side of this issue might say, well that’s you know, this is what we believe in is fair. I think it just again, it puts the responsibility on us and we’re going to just have to work a little harder to make sure that as a society we can still maintain this. And so I think rather than be discouraged by these changes, I think which forces us to double down and work a little harder and and I and I hope folks rise to the moment, even if it doesn’t feel fair.
John L. Hanson Jr. And the stand, I guess, is an individual choice. Would you suggest individual student, high school students maybe take a half year off or a year off prior to going to college or should have just to be a continual.
Greg Kaplan You know, in Europe, gap years are quite common. And I and the the folks I went to college with particularly year off I think had such a stronger sense of self going into college and got so much more out. I’ll be honest, I didn’t know myself at 18 and so going to college was awesome as it was. I think a six months or a year probably would have allowed me. Empowered me to get so much more out of it. So I think for for folks who are willing to take a gap year, it’s a fantastic opportunity to grow and make the most of college. You can apply to college, get in and request a gap year. As long as you are not proposing you do something illegal. I go join a cartel or, you know, whatever it is. Acquiring something. Where is that? You can they’re going to grant it because typically schools want to see students grow before they show up. So or you could take a year off, figure out life and then apply. So we are very pro gap year as an organization because I think it allows young people to gain a lot more life experience to get the most out of college.
John L. Hanson Jr. Is an addendum to to that that question. Individuals who have not been away from their parents for any length of time, how well do they do once they go off to college? Or is is that even a consideration?
Greg Kaplan I think this goes back to that earlier point about that I was raising about knowing when to hold back as a parent is that in this era of. You know, it’s not helicopter parenting anymore. It’s snowplow parenting where it’s you remove every single obstacle from a child’s path can be function in the real world. Dropout rates are increasing in colleges because young people aren’t equipped to deal with the challenges. I think it’s getting kids ready when they’re at the tail end of high school to go off and be somewhat semi-independent adults in university. That’s really, really important to make sure that they are equipped.
John L. Hanson Jr. Mr. Kaplan, well, one comes to you for advice. One of the some of the first things that you try to ascertain from them, and it says.
Greg Kaplan The first question I ask every young person is not where do they want to go to college? It’s what do you see yourself doing in ten years? What do you see yourself up to? What do you think would make you happy? And the reason why it’s like it’s okay not to know what you want to do, but if we are not thinking about developing skills and the perspective we need to make this journey work for them when they graduate at 22, they may be lost. And to me that is a bigger challenge than are they going to college. So that’s what I’m always trying to ascertain. And then also it’s making sure that they’re engaging in experiences that I think will allow them to grow to do well in the college admissions process and in life. So we tell all young people that in the three. The three tenets of the journey are grit, leadership, passion. We are encouraging every young person to get a part time job so they can develop career and learn how to deal with the real world. We’re encouraging every young person to get involved in their community through service because that’s the way they can become leaders. And then we’re encouraging every young person to explore their interests so they can start figuring out what they want to do in life. And then their education starts to come in to focus.
John L. Hanson Jr. Besides the academic pursuit that obviously these young people are going through in high school, are there any of the activities that will put them in good stead with them when they go off to college? As far as good activities.
Greg Kaplan Above and beyond, like the three major food groups, great leadership, passion, I would say colleges love to see when young people take community college classes in the summers as a way to enhance their transcript and show that they’re going deeper into their academic interest. That’s a great way for a young person that may want to be an engineer or go into broadcast journalism taking a communication class. So do I like this? Do I not like this? Are colleges love that? I mean, I think colleges really do like to see when it comes to being involved in your community, to be a leader, you don’t need to be student council president or team captain of a sport. You do need to be growing in your own way. And so there’s no set requirement of activities or types of activities. The ones that make sense for who you’re trying to become. And that’s why it’s so important to be thoughtful about what it is that I’m seeking to do as part of this process.
John L. Hanson Jr. A couple more questions Mr. Kaplan, is there any one or a couple of things that give you pause when these young people and parents come to you?
Greg Kaplan I think the obsession over name brand universities always gives me pause because this mentality that if I go to X school, I have to go to X school to to do Y thing in life. That’s not true. And I think that’s what creates so much anxiety. I think what we’re seeing a lot of now, and that’s all I’ve been doing with this week, is you have students who the D get a tough math class or tough English class, and they just want to drop out. They’re just like, I can’t be in something that’s super challenging because it’s it’s it’s it’s too stressful. It’s one thing to say I need to go down to a lower level class if I’m not prepared for an upper level one. But to sit there and say like, I don’t want to face any type of adversity, I’m worried. Are we losing the ability to persevere? Because, again, I respect the stress that comes with that we need to address with mental health. But I don’t think there’s a license to say let’s just remove every challenge in life.
John L. Hanson Jr. Speaking of stress, obviously there were some problems with, I guess, the financial assistance or aid program that the government rolled. How is this basically stressing out parents to get that information in and also get a resolution of their requests?
Greg Kaplan Absolutely. Great question. Last year, the Department of Education rolled out a new platform for applying for financial aid, and that’s called FAFSA. And Fafsa, as a result of it being so delayed, a lot of folks didn’t know if they were going to qualify for a for need based financial aid at the universities that they were applying to. And so colleges did work longer to make sure and give extensions for students to work with the universities to determine if they would be eligible for financial aid. I hope those kinks have been worked out this year. The new the system, the worked on it this year it’s being relaunched in the fall and we’re just going to have to wait and see.
John L. Hanson Jr. Greg Kaplan, founder of the Kaplan Educational Group and author up The Journey: How to Prepare Kids for a Competitive and Changing World. And if you have questions, comments or suggestions as to the future In Black America programs, email us at inblackamerica@kut.org. Also, let us know what radio station you heard us over. Don’t forget to subscribe to our podcast and follow us on Facebook and X. You can hear our programs online at kut.org. Also, you can listen to a special collection of In Black America program at American Archive of Public Broadcasting. That’s americanarchives.org. The views and opinions expressed on this program are not necessarily those of this station or of the University of Texas at Austin. Until we have the opportunity again for technical producer David Alvarez, I’m John L. Hanson Jr. Thank you for joining us today. Please join us again next week.
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This transcript was transcribed by AI, and lightly edited by a human. Accuracy may vary. This text may be revised in the future.
