This week on In Black America, producer and host John L. Hanson, Jr. presents a tribute to the late minister and legendary Gospel singer Bishop Rance Allen, founder of the Rance Allen Group, with an interview recorded in 2016. Rance Allen died October 31, 2020, at the age of 71.
The full transcript of this episode of In Black America is available on the KUT & KUTX Studio website. The transcript is also available as subtitles or captions on some podcast apps.
John L. Hanson Jr. [00:00:00] The following program was a tribute to the late Bishop Rance Allen, founder of the Rance Allen Group. Allen died on October 31st, 2020. He was 71.
Announcer [00:00:18] Intro Music: The In Black America theme music, an instrumental by Kyle Turner. From the University of Texas at Austin, KUT Radio, this is In Black America.
Bishop Rance Allen [00:00:32] Back in the day, it was, you know, a, a meeting at church on a nightly basis. John, we had church seven days a week. In order to keep from, you know, at times and being bored out of your minds, you got together with your brothers and sisters, and you sang together, and you played together and, played music together, and you even got down on the altar and saw the Holy Ghost together. I mean, you did everything together.
John L. Hanson Jr. [00:01:08] Legendary gospel recording artist Bishop Rance Allen. Bishop Allen and his brother Tom and Steve formed the Rance Allen Group in 1969 and introduced a new contemporary, innovative sound to the gospel music audience, incorporating rock, jazz and so into the music. One of 12 children, Allen preached his first sermon and started performing as a gospel singer at age five. He began playing piano by age seven and the guitar a few years later. For 40 plus years, the Rance Allen Group has crossed many boundaries, influenced countless artists, and made musical history with their lives and music. In 2009, he was celebrated as one of the Great Men of Gospel by the Black Academy of Arts and Letters, and has made a name for themselves as an actor by appearing in several gospel music, stage and onscreen productions. The Rest Allen Group has released their third live CD entitled The Rance Allen Group Live in San Francisco. I’m John L. Hanson Jr., and welcome to another edition of In Black America. On this week’s program, Bishop Rance Allen of the Rance Allen Group, In Black America.
Music [00:02:41] I could see.
Music [00:02:43] Your brain all day long. Yes I could. All day long. Hey, hey. I can sing your brains all day long. Yes I could. Can I say it again? Lonely. Lonely. Lonely. Lonely. Sing them all day. Don’t let me do it on earth.
Bishop Rance Allen [00:03:15] Lord if we can somehow rather get through the doors of Motown, it would be a dream come true. I sent a cassette tape of, music, singing, and we got a response. And, but it wasn’t the one that we wanted. They said to us that, they knew why they liked what we were doing. I thought that we had great potential. They were not doing gospel music.
John L. Hanson Jr. [00:03:45] The Rance Allen Group is celebrating their 40th year of being in the gospel music industry. Bishop Allen founded the Rance Allen Group in Detroit in 1965 and has found a man with his soulful, soaring vocals ever since. The traditionally trained African-American gospel group was the first traditional gospel group to incorporate rock, jazz and soul into their music. In 1972, they sang with Stacked Records gospel troupe subsidiary, where they recorded a serious gospel songs that won them mainstage tours with R&B headliners such as Isaac Hayes and Barry White. They went on to record a number of gospel classics such as You That I trust, Do Your Will, and I Belong to You. In 2008, the group was honored with the BMI Trailblazers Award. Born and raised in Monroe, Michigan, Bishop Allen, at the age of five began his preaching ministry, and by the age of nine he was preaching throughout Michigan, Ohio, and Pennsylvania. He was licensed to preach at age 12, and has since carried the word of the Lord throughout the country and abroad. Recently, the group released their 25th album entitled The Rance Allen Group Live in San Francisco.
Bishop Rance Allen [00:05:01] Hey man, it’s my joy and my privilege. I’m glad to be on the air with you.
John L. Hanson Jr. [00:05:06] Tell us a little bit about yourself. I know you from Monroe and I’m from Detroit, and you’re about two years older than I am. But for those who haven’t had the opportunity to tell them what was like growing up in Monroe, Michigan.
Bishop Rance Allen [00:05:19] Man in Monroe, Michigan, I can remember when the streets were unpaved and, they had a whole community of, Blacks, and we all lived on, what we called the East End. And, man, I mean, you know, I’d never been south, but, I could feel that southern influence, man. Because if you went down town, boy, you got looks. And somebody would even ask, what are you doing down here? You know? But, Monroe, other than that was a wonderful place to be, man. I had my family, my mother, my grandmother, and even my great grandmother. Oh, man. For years, we just had a great time. Me and the fellas started playing music and, young ages. And every 4th of July, we would sit out on my mother’s porch, which was actually like a stage. And, man, we would play for as many as 6 to 8 hours on that day, and people would come from everywhere. Finally, they started blocking off the East End, so that, you know, we could have our, our concert and our crowd and, Monroe Monroe provided a lot of, good, things for us, not only as family, but as a group.
John L. Hanson Jr. [00:06:52] Now, tell us, how was life like, I guess at dinner time when you got, 12 brothers and sisters.
Bishop Rance Allen [00:06:58] Oh, man. There’s a saying where, that, where cheese is concerned. It’s every rat for himself. So when it came time to eat it and it’s 12 of us. Mama would cook all the pork chops. It’d be on you if you didn’t get, yours. You know, sometimes if a fella was extra quick he might get two of them, you know, but but it was, it was a time of, coming together. It was a time of mama teaching us to be respectful, to each other and, you know, share and all that kind of a dinner time. Well, most people look at me and Dom and say that, they think that, we overstayed our welcome at the dinner table, and my brother Steve got pushed away. But, it really wasn’t like, we had a great time, and and nobody went hungry. Everybody was fed. It was a time of, family enrichment every single day.
John L. Hanson Jr. [00:08:11] No, no. That’s right. How did you happen to spend more? Time with your grandmother?
Bishop Rance Allen [00:08:16] Well, my mother and my dad were not getting along one week, and, they were going to, discuss what they had to do to get along, even if it meant divorce. So, my mom asked her mother, you know, we all lived a driveway apart, right? My mother, my grandmother and my great grandmother. Just a driveway apart. And, my mother said to her mother, can you keep ranch for me for the weekend while his dad and I discuss, you know, what we need to do to try to make things worse? My grandmother said, sure. And, man, when my dad came to get me after that weekend was over. This is what they tell me. They tell me I had a fit, did not want to go home. And, so, my dad said to, my grandmother, well, maybe we’ll let him stay with you another, another week and, and get it in and maybe and hopefully out of his system. Well, that turned into me being with my grandmother until I got married at 22 years old.
John L. Hanson Jr. [00:09:38] Know that.
Bishop Rance Allen [00:09:39] So I, I grew up, in a family at 12, but I was treated, as if I were, you know, an only child.
John L. Hanson Jr. [00:09:49] Now, how did you time and Steve get together? I think it was the fourth brother, but he eventually, you know, dropped out of the group. So how did you all come come together as as a group back in the day?
Bishop Rance Allen [00:10:01] Back in the day. It was, you know, a, a meeting, at church. On a nightly basis, John, we had church seven days a week.
John L. Hanson Jr. [00:10:13] I understand.
Bishop Rance Allen [00:10:14] And, in order to keep from, you know, at times of being bored out of your mind, you got together with your brothers and sisters, and you sang together, and you played together and, played music together, and you even got out on the altar and and saw the Holy Ghost together. I mean, you did everything together, and, that’s. But what I will say that drew us together. It was it was, church, and, good gospel music. It drew us together myself, my older brother Tom. Steve. And, you’re talking about it. So many. So, I got a good report on you. So, man, he he left the church after he got out of school. And, man, he did the drugs and alcohol and the woman thing and, but as of today, my younger brother is solidly saved and back in the church.
John L. Hanson Jr. [00:11:25] You know, that’s good. That’s good to hear. Now, when you all decided to get together and like any knowledgeable person living in southern Michigan and around Detroit, you all went to knock on Motown’s doors. But Motown wasn’t doing gospel at the time.
Bishop Rance Allen [00:11:43] That’s right. We had. And that was a dream for us.
Bishop Rance Allen [00:11:48] I know it was.
Bishop Rance Allen [00:11:49] Yeah. We were thinking, boy, if we can somehow rather get through the doors of Motown, it would be a, dream come true. And, I, I sent, a cassette tape of, music and, singing, and, we got a response van and, but it wasn’t the one that we wanted. They said to us that, while they liked what we were doing. Thought that we had great potential. They were not doing gospel music. If we chose to do R&B, we were welcome to come and, and you know, talk to them again. And so, that’s the way that went. And from that point, we took the music that we had recorded and, my manager, who still lives in Detroit today, he took it to, Memphis. That’s Stax Records, right? And, Stax basically told him the same thing that Motown told us, you know, that, they were not doing gospel music. And, so my manager turns around, gets on the plane to come home. And to his surprise, that time he got home, there was a. Waiting on him saying we like what we heard so well, so we would consider signing the group even if we had to come up with a new record label to put them on.
John L. Hanson Jr. [00:13:29] Was that album? Who who made that album?
Bishop Rance Allen [00:13:33] And that was okay. Hal Bell.
John L. Hanson Jr. [00:13:36] It seems like a lot of Detroit guilt. The group that I grew up with, The dramatics, had to end up going going to Stax. So, everybody followed suit of Motown. Didn’t didn’t have room for you. Stax did.
Bishop Rance Allen [00:13:51] That’s right. That’s the way that was.
John L. Hanson Jr. [00:13:54] Tell us about almost missing the plane. Or were you all did miss the plane to watch that?
Bishop Rance Allen [00:14:00] Oh, man. That was something else, man. We went back early that morning, about 6:00 in the morning to get on a plane. It was raining like you wouldn’t believe. We get and, the man at the counter says, oh, fellas, I’m sorry, that plane has already left. And, man, we saw this. What sticks as such a great, chance to be seen by the masses until I immediately went into prayer. My manager was upset with us because he had warned us not to be late. And, my brothers, they were like, they weren’t, you know, mad or anything, but they, they, they did understand that to lose out on what Stax was, was great. Great. It was going to be a great disappointment. And, man, I’m over in the corner praying. My brother was, saying to me, man, you know, I believe in prayer, too, but I don’t know about this one, you know? Right. And about, after about 15 or 20 minutes of prayer, we heard the man come over the intercom. The man told us that the plane was going. He come over the intercom and he says, that plane that just left for Los Angeles, California, is now returning to the starting gate. It has problems with its toilets. Ma’am, that we thank God for broken toilets. I that so And so we got on that plane and man I, I can’t tell you how it happened. All I know is that it did happen. We were scheduled to be in coach. But when we got on the plane they put us in first class. And what was started out as a tragic kind of thing ended up being a, bountifully blessed day.
John L. Hanson Jr. [00:16:09] Now, what was it like? You all are the only gospel group on the program, and everybody else is R&B.
Bishop Rance Allen [00:16:16] That’s right. That’s right. As a matter of fact, some of the R&B groups were, singing gospel, right? But we were the only, gospel group, on the show. And.
John L. Hanson Jr. [00:16:32] And the response was just amazing.
Bishop Rance Allen [00:16:34] Oh, man. It was it was awesome. It was really I mean, this is back in 1972, John. Exactly. I can I can almost see the people, as as I’m sitting in my chair.
John L. Hanson Jr. [00:16:49] You seen the afros and the veil?
Bishop Rance Allen [00:16:52] Absolutely. We we were we were rocking at, the, the coliseum. The Coliseum. Man.
John L. Hanson Jr. [00:17:03] All right, if you’re just joining us, I’m John L. Hanson Jr., and you’re listening to In Black America from KUT Radio, and we’re speaking with the legendary Rance Allen of the Rance Allen Group. They have a new CD out entitled The Rance Allen Group Live in San Francisco. Mr. Allen, your sound is revolutionary to the point where back in the day you received a lot of pushback, but today it’s commonplace. What was it about Fuzing R&B and little funk blues with your gospel sound?
Bishop Rance Allen [00:17:48] Oh man. It was, it was, unheard of. Exactly. Back in, back in that time. And, and, we were doing it and, we would go to church to do it, and, and we would get frowned on in modern church, but there was 1 or 2 churches that actually asked us to leave when we got through, playing our music, you know, because, they didn’t want us to somehow rather feel that it was okay to, to, play the way we did and sing the way we did. But, as you say, today, we’re living in a completely different, world. Gospel music has been so improved and so orchestrated and, so produced. Til, you hear gospel music today? If you’re not listening close to the words.
John L. Hanson Jr. [00:18:53] You, you can’t you you can’t yourself.
Bishop Rance Allen [00:18:57] Yeah. That’s okay. So. That’s right.
John L. Hanson Jr. [00:19:01] So who was some of the, the the artists in which you all listen to? Of course, we know you all listen to to Motown, but some of the artists that influence you and your brothers.
Bishop Rance Allen [00:19:13] Man, we heard, I believe the violinist came out of Detroit. I believe this was a gospel group that sang so beautifully. Man. They they utilized all of the high notes and the high harmonies and and the certain kinds of ways, to perform. Then my, my most favorite, still call him Mr.. Today, that’s Mr.. Joe Ligon and the mighty clouds of Joy. And then we had Doctor Mattie Moss Clark, who was right there in the city of Detroit. And the Michigan Southwest Choir. Okay. And I was a part of that for a while. And then you, I listened to people like Mahalia Jackson. Brother Joe May and, the list goes on and on. And, people that, I admired in gospel. But then I had a lot, you know, a lot of, guys over there on the other side, the the pimps and, dramatics, man. Yeah. Cause, yeah, man. These were people whose music was so great, Barry White and, until, you know, I, I, could not, sing without being influenced, by some of that great music.
John L. Hanson Jr. [00:20:49] I understand. I couldn’t wait till I received my first radio job so I could play I Belong to You. How did you all come up with that song.
Bishop Rance Allen [00:21:01] Man? We were in, we were in Berkeley, California. Okay. We had just finished an album called straight From the heart. And, Hank Crosby, who was, Stevie Wonder’s early producer? I think he was our producer. And I appealed to Hank. I said, hey, Hank, I got I got a line that I gotta put down. He said, Rance, we’re ready to go. We had been in there till like 3:00 that morning, and he’s telling me, man, it’s time to go. We’ve been in here all day. And I said, please let me put down just this line. And, I started playing it on the piano and the musicians that were there. Hey, hey, we like that. So they said, let let us play along with you. And within 20 minutes, man, we had. I belong to you. I’m yours. Man, that thing took off for us. Yes, it did. And. Oh, my goodness, I we couldn’t believe it. The last song done at the last minute was the one that, took off the message. Yeah. And took the message to the message.
Music [00:22:52] Where will. I mean. I’m not all alone. Why don’t you take me? Why don’t you make me just what you want me to be? I.
John L. Hanson Jr. [00:23:32] What is it about your music? If you can kind of analyze it, that have secular musicians? One of, you know, one of one of being sessions with you, you know, you got Kirk Franklin and the Winans and everybody else said, we you know, we we want we, you know, we want to jam up with Rance Allen in the salon group.
Bishop Rance Allen [00:23:53] But then, you know, I think, I think that it might be the music and, the way we performed it or sang it. It didn’t sound like your average church music.
John L. Hanson Jr. [00:24:13] I got you.
Bishop Rance Allen [00:24:14] It sounded like there was something else going on, and, it truly was something else going on, man. I was trying my best to reach an audience or people, who might not ever go to church.
John L. Hanson Jr. [00:24:31] I got you.
Bishop Rance Allen [00:24:34] That’s why my music, sounded the way it did in many instances.
John L. Hanson Jr. [00:24:40] Haven’t been doing this for 40 plus years. What changes have you observed in the industry?
Bishop Rance Allen [00:24:47] Well, like I said, first of all, I can remember a time when, I had prophesied and I was waiting on it to come true, that gospel music would be played every day, 24 hours a day. Okay. Because when I started, gospel music was basically played Sunday morning, 6 a.m. to 10 a.m.. You right? If you. Yeah. And if you missed that time slot.
John L. Hanson Jr. [00:25:17] You missed it for the week. Unless you got up early, early in the morning from 6 to 7 or 5 to 7.
Bishop Rance Allen [00:25:24] But. That’s right. And, so I, prophesied that, there would be a change. And sure enough, to today. Oh, my goodness, you can hear gospel music all day long. You can, I’m. But things that I’ve seen change. Is the the, production of gospel music. We went in to do our first album. We did eight songs, playing the music and singing within four hours. And, Dave Clark.
John L. Hanson Jr. [00:26:00] That was going to say that was back with Dave Clark.
Bishop Rance Allen [00:26:03] Oh, man. Dave was the producer on that man. Dave went in the studio with us and Dave was like, come on, come on, come on, clap, clap is running. Do you know? So we had to do it with him for hours. I said, Mr. Clark, I made a mistake on that one little line on the piano. He said, oh, don’t worry about it. Don’t worry about it. That’s the spirit. That’s the spirit. Don’t don’t worry about that. Just leave that alone, you know? So so today, you know, we’re thankful that, you can go into the studio with gospel music and people are interested to the point to where they will say to you, we’re going to take our time and do this. It’s another day.
Music [00:27:10] I come, right? I made it because of you. You draw it. From the strength. Makes me happy. With him. I mean.
John L. Hanson Jr. [00:27:27] This has been a tribute to the legendary gospel recording artist Bishop Rance Allen. Allen died on October 31st, 2020. He was 71. If you have questions, comments or suggestions for a future In Black America program, email us at inblackamerica.org. Also, let us know what radio station you heard us over. Don’t forget to subscribe to our podcast and follow us on Facebook. And as you can hear previous programs online at kut.org. Also, you can listen to a special collection of In Black America programs at American Archive of Public Broadcasting at americanarchive.org. The views and opinions expressed on this program are not necessarily those of this station or of the University of Texas at Austin. Until we have the opportunity again for technical producer David Alvarez, I’m John L. Hanson Jr. Thank you for joining us today. Please join us again next week.
Announcer [00:28:59] CD copies of this program are available and may be purchased by writing to In Black America CDs, KUT Radio, 300 West Dean Keeton St, Austin, TX 78712. This has been a production of KUT Radio.
This transcript was transcribed by AI, and lightly edited by a human. Accuracy may vary. This text may be revised in the future.