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Gov. Greg Abbott is pitching the idea of eliminating what he calls “city monopolies” on providing electricity, a plan focused in part on Austin Energy. He claims a move like this could lower customer rates, but how has deregulation played out in other parts of the state?
“Austinhenge” this weekend is a darn good chance to catch a stellar sunset photo here in town. We’ve got some tips to help you make that perfect shot.
Plus, the question has been asked before and will likely be asked forever more: Is Austin still weird? Plenty of folks say not really, or that is hasn’t been for some time now — but there’s always a bit of weird for those who go searching.
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The full transcript of this episode of Austin Signal is available on the KUT & KUTX Studio website. The transcript is also available as subtitles or captions on some podcast apps.
Jerry Quijano [00:00:08] Governor Greg Abbott is pitching the idea of eliminating what he calls city monopolies on providing electricity, a plan focused in part on Austin energy. He claims a move like this could lower customer rates, but how has deregulation played out in other parts of the state? We’ve got more about that. It’s coming up on today’s show.
KUT Announcer: Laurie Gallardo [00:00:27] The Austin Signal is a production of KUT News, hosted by Jerry Quijano.
Jerry Quijano [00:00:32] And Austin Henge is happening right now. What is it? Well, it’s a really good chance to catch a stellar sunset photo here in town. We’ve got some good tips to help you make that perfect shot. Plus, the question has been asked before and will likely be asked forever more. Is Austin still weird? Plenty of folks have plenty of feelings. Come get weird with us. That’s coming up next right here on Austin Signal. Bye. Howdy out there, this is Austin Signal. I’m your host, Jerry Kehannel. Today is the seventh, the first Friday of August. Thank you for spending it here with us. Governor Greg Abbott pitched this week the idea of eliminating what he calls city monopolies on providing electricity, a plan focused in part on Austin Energy and the main provider down in San Antonio. Abbott claims a move like this could lower rates for customers in these cities, but it hasn’t always played out like that for other Texans. Joining us now is Cyrus Reed. He is the legislative and conservation director at the Texas chapter of the Sierra Club, a nonprofit organization focused on environmental issues. He has been following municipal energy use for decades and he’s with us now. Thank you for being here, Cyrus.
Jerry Quijano [00:01:51] Yeah, no problem. It’s a pleasure to be here.
Jerry Quijano [00:01:53] So this week, Austin Energy came under the focus of Governor Greg Abbott for what he called or what he labeled monopolies, energy monopolies. Can you tell us a little bit about how Austin Energy works here?
Jerry Quijano [00:02:05] Yeah, Austin Energy and 71 other municipal-owned utilities in the state of Texas are vertically integrated energy companies. In other words, they own wires, they can own generation, and they sell electricity to the folks that are in their service area. Austin Energy is one of those 72 municipal-own utilities, and it does mean that they’re the ones who sell electricity to you. You pay your rates to them. That money then goes to Austin Energy, but because they ultimately are a department of the city of Austin, the profits can either go back into the electric system or be used by the city of Austin for other budgetary needs.
Jerry Quijano [00:02:49] Gotcha. Okay, well this week Governor Abbott said that doing so or breaking this monopoly as he labeled it here for Austin Energy would help lower Texans power bills. He didn’t exactly say how that would be the case. Why would that be the case?
Jerry Quijano [00:03:03] So the reason that could be the case, and we kind of disagree with the proposal as you’ll hear, is because in the deregulated part of ERCOT’s market, so some areas like Corpus, Houston or Dallas, folks can choose their retail electric provider. That is simply the company that sells them the electricity and you can choose what kind of rate you want and shop around. It doesn’t actually change what you’re paying to the transmission companies for transmission. And those companies don’t actually own generation. So it’s a different model. It’s a deregulated model where folks do choose their electric providers. So you could go and shop on the Power To Choose website and you might be able to lock in for a year or two rates that you think are preferable for yourself.
Jerry Quijano [00:03:55] Well, obviously there’s lots of talk here about prices and cheaper prices from the work that you’ve done and from what you know. Are prices in competitive markets, do they tend to be lower than municipally owned utilities?
Jerry Quijano [00:04:06] The answer is no, but it depends. So depending on the utility, the prices might be lower in the competitive market. But in the case of Austin Energy, in part because of the investments we’ve made on energy savings program and onsite solar, the average bills in Austin Energy are actually the lowest in ERCOT. The only utility I know of with lower prices is El Paso Electric, which again, it’s partially because they don’t really use AC out there. They use swamp coolers and so they use less energy. But in general, our prices in Austin, for an average user, are the lowest in ERCOT. And so we’re not convinced by this proposal.
Jerry Quijano [00:04:45] You’ve spent some time as a lobbyist and also some time, obviously, in the legislature. How long has this talk of deregulation been happening here in Texas?
Jerry Quijano [00:04:53] It’s been for a while. So in 1999, there was a bill that was passed by the legislature that deregulated or partially deregulate the electric market, separating generators, retail electric providers, and the transmission companies. But in that law, they allowed public utilities, whether they were municipal owned utilities or electric cooperatives, some more rural electric cooperative. To not enter into that competition if they chose not to. If they wanted to, they could, but they didn’t have to. And so since that time, we’ve only had two utilities. One is the city of Lubbock, and they might have a different title, but it’s basically the city of Lubbeck’s electric power entity. And the Nueces Electric Co-op are the only public utilities that have agreed to go into the competitive market. Other than that, everyone else has maintained. Their so-called monopoly within their service area.
Jerry Quijano [00:05:50] And I was reading about the Lubbock market. It seems like prices, while they started low, they seem to have risen in recent years, or since they entered into that deregulated market.
Jerry Quijano [00:06:01] So that was a particular case. What happened with Lubbock is they decided to join Urquhart’s market. They previously had been in another market in the Southwest Power Pool. And so when they switched over to Urquart, the city basically made that decision with public input. In other words, folks thought that was good idea. We’d rather than maintain our monopoly, we’d rather give people that choice. They’re a much smaller utility than say CPS Energy or Austin Energy, but still a municipal utility. And they continue to own some transmission lines.
Jerry Quijano [00:06:33] Okay, got it. You mentioned ERCOT. When I think of ERCOD and energy, and I’m sure other Texans think this way, blackouts also come to mind. I know we’re in the early stages of this plan. How could more energy companies being in Austin or in other cities potentially affect blackouts?
Jerry Quijano [00:06:48] Well, we’re worried by the proposal, and the reason we’re worried is because right now Austin Energy has a set of customers. They sort of know what their revenues are going to be, and therefore they can plan for how they’re going to buster up their distribution system, what generation needs they might have to serve that load to serve their customers. But if you suddenly allow folks to opt out, and I’m not clear on the governor’s proposal, but it seems like it’s everybody. It could be commercial entities, industrial entities. Residential consumers, that suddenly means that amount of revenues isn’t available for Austin Energy or other municipal utilities to invest, which then could make our electric reliability worsen. And so it might not make sense. On the one hand, you say, oh, choice is good. Maybe someone can shop for lower prices. But what you’re basically doing is impacting those utilities and their plans to invest in a more reliable system. And in fact, a lot of the generation decisions that are being made by Austin Energy, by CPS Energy, by others, Denton. They’re dependent in some ways on having a customer base that can then support that investment. That investment actually serves the whole grid, right? It’s not just tied to those customers, it’s serving the entire grid. And so this could really put that reliability at risk.
Jerry Quijano [00:08:11] Well, you spent a lot of time working on energy issues here in Texas. When you first heard the announcement from the governor this week, did it catch you by surprise? Totally by surprise.
Jerry Quijano [00:08:19] Price. We have heard certain legislators in the past either have legislation or discuss this as a model. We should allow anyone in the state of Texas that’s within ERCOT to choose their electric provider. We hadn’t seen this broad of a proposal and especially not coming from the governor. Again, it sounds good, lower prices by giving people options. The issue is you’re going to then impact all of those cities that use the non-for-profit revenues to go back into their system and into other programs. You’re going undermine that, and therefore, they will probably have to raise property taxes to cover those costs, which kind of goes against what the governor’s been saying about lowering property taxes. So something can sound good on the surface, but it can have unintended consequences.
Jerry Quijano [00:09:15] And speaking of which, from your perspective, are there other potential negative impacts that could come from this plan?
Jerry Quijano [00:09:22] There are, as a member of Austin Energy, as someone who’s served by them, or could be anyone in the state, you have a voice in how that utility is run. We have a Electric Utility Commission. I happen to be on the Electric Utilities Commission, but we also have a city council. Other utilities have their own boards of directors. People can come. And say, we’d like a program like this. As an example, Austin Energy has the leading programs for energy efficiency. We have a customer assistance program that helps 80,000 individuals with lower bills. If you take away our customer base, it’s harder to have those kinds of investments. And the great thing about public utilities is you can influence what they do. If you’re choosing, and I’m not bad mouthing any private corporations, but if you’re using. TXU or Reliant, which are the leading electric companies in the competitive market, you don’t really have much say because they’re serving their shareholders. And so local democracy, local decision-making is at those municipal utilities.
Jerry Quijano [00:10:27] All right, we have been speaking with Cyrus Reed. He is the Legislative and Conservation Director at the Texas Chapter of the Sierra Club. He has been following the municipal energy use issue for decades, and we will have a link to more in today’s show notes. Cyrus, thank you. It was a pleasure. Thank you so much. And just a quick note, Austin Energy is a financial supporter of KUT News. Financial supporters do not influence news coverage from KUT news and Austin Signal. We got a couple headlines before you go. Four construction workers were detained by DPS and ICE officers yesterday during a traffic stop downtown. DPS says the individuals in the vehicle were, quote, not lawfully present in the United States, end quote. And Austin ISD is still figuring out transportation plans for middle and high school students less than two weeks before the start of the school year. The district is retooling its bus system after eliminating 27 school bus routes to save money. This is Austin Signal. We’re gonna be back right after this break. This is Austin Signal. Well, you’ve undoubtedly heard of the city’s unofficial Keep Austin Weird slogan. Since its inception in the early 2000s, the slogan has sparked an undying debate in an aggressively nostalgic city, and it’s led to a perennial question. Are we still keeping Austin weird? KUT’s Andrew Weber set out to find that answer.
Andrew Weber [00:11:53] Personally, I think Austin is weird. Kind of, but it’s not the weird I’ve grown accustomed to. Before you come after me, I’ve been here in Austin for close to 18 years, half my life. I’ve met Leslie Cochran, Austin’s dearly departed cross-dressing mascot and former mayoral candidate. He used to hang out in my apartment parking lot off South Lamar and always ambled up to me to ask for a spare beer when I was coming home from work just before he died. And the other day, I had to dodge a cyber truck with a full wrap advertisement for peptide treatments, walking to a coffee shop. So I don’t know if this place is weird anymore, or maybe it is, or maybe its not my kind of weird. I didn’t know how to answer the question, so I consulted the ancient texts. The man who was responsible for this question, Red Wassonick. In the early 2000s, the ACC Librarian started the whole keep Austin weird thing. It became a city slogan after a campaign against a big box bookstore moving across the street from book people, and it stuck. But since Austin’s meteoric growth, It’s influx of more and more tech culture with less and less affordable housing for artists. It’s beg to question, is the city still weird? Here’s Red Wasinek, 10 years ago, speaking with KET editor, Ben Philpott.
Red Wasinek [00:13:03] It’s still weird. I know people are obsessed about, no, it’s not weird. But there’s this recurring phenomenon of old farts like me who go, oh, it not weird anymore. It used to be weird. And then you meet new people who move here and say, this is great. It’s so weird here. So everybody thinks the past was.
Andrew Weber [00:13:27] Something better. Unfortunately, Red died in 2020, so I couldn’t get his take on how Austin has fared in the last decade. But I did get a hold of another Austin old-timer, Cary On. He moved here in 1970, started a band, painted the iconic Austin-tacious mural on the drag, and he did stand up. I got a hold on him on a scratchy phone line. We didn’t know it was weird at the time. But he argues he helped make it weird. That’s a cut from the Ronnie Velveeta show on Austin Public Access. His boozy, skeezy lounge singer act is the reason that Austin’s longest-running comedy club is called the Velveeteroom. And he’s got thoughts about Austin’s comedy scene now. Uh, well, I don’t like Joe Rogan. Carey’s move from Austin coincided with Joe Rogans’ move to Austin. He says he doesn’t recognize the comedy scene anymore, so he moved out to Alpine. But he thinks that’s just part of the city’s fabric On the whole, he thinks Austin’s vibe has persevered. Austin is still weird. It’s still weird, but it’s a real-
Cary On [00:14:30] Really the people make it weird, not anything like the town itself is not weird, but the people make is weird. We didn’t know in the 20th century, we were just trying to amuse ourselves, that’s what we did. Show.
Andrew Weber [00:14:48] Make other people laugh, but Carrie’s not out here dodging cyber trucks in Austin I had to find a weirdo a local weirdo. So I rode my bike across Ben White
Vince Hanneman [00:15:09] Hey, man. Hey. Andrew from KC. Andrew, hey. How you doing? Good.
Andrew Weber [00:15:12] Vince Hanneman has lived off Lorena in South Austin since 1989. On a very hot day, he’s on his back porch, polishing off a Lone Star, sweating, and gazing upon his work.
Vince Hanneman [00:15:24] So I didn’t have a grand plan. I mean, I couldn’t think that far into the future really. I started with a little grouping of individual freestanding sculptures, but over time they kind of grew together. And when that happened, people started asking me, hey, what do you call that? I was like, I don’t know, Yard Space 11. They were like, what does that mean? Oh my God. My mom started calling it the Cathedral of Junk, you know, like a mom will. And that’s stuck like glue. So that’s how that happened. I’ve never had this idea, ooh, I’m gonna build a cathedral of junk.
Andrew Weber [00:16:00] If you’ve never been out to the Cathedral of Junk, I highly recommend it. It’s an island of misfit toys that rose up out of the earth, as if by some sort of incantation. But Vince has been collecting junk and tacking it onto this shrine for nearly 40 years. You duck your head under a gaggle of wind chimes, and there’s a 40-foot spire lined with constellations of junk. Vince says he’s tried to make a list.
Vince Hanneman [00:16:27] Bowling balls, which there’s multiples of, right? Shopping carts, which they’re multiples of. Bicycles, which is there’s multiple stuff. You know, hubcaps, VCRs, televisions, typewriters, vacuum cleaners, colanders, license plates, street signs. You know the list just goes and goes and goes and it’s pages.
Andrew Weber [00:16:55] The thing is, Vince’s neighbors used to hate this place, but then people started seeking it out, donating junk to help feed the beast. It became a tourist attraction, a totem of Austin’s weirdness. Vince is annoyed by that, in a way. People like me, coming to ask questions about the definition of Austin weirdness, whether the city still is weird, he says it’s not that simple.
Vince Hanneman [00:17:17] I thought of the word that what it is that keep Austin weird in America, it’s exceptionalism. I think that’s something that, you know, they talk about American exceptionalism, that’s what we are in Austin. We’re excellent and exceptional and they somehow think that that’s weird. You know, I hate to sound all patriotic like that, but I think it’s kind of true.
Andrew Weber [00:17:44] Walking around with Vince, it’s like he’s brand new to this place. He lights up when he spots a random piece of junk and tells you how it got there. Just before I left, Vince showed me another odd find. That is one of his favorites.
Vince Hanneman [00:17:56] Aluminum disk. This is from NASA back in the day. These are computer disks, believe it or not. They hold like next to no information on each one of these disks. They had stacks and stacks and stack of these. It was before a floppy disk, exactly. These are hard aluminum disks. Who knows, that might have sent somebody to the moon for all we know.
Andrew Weber [00:18:29] And maybe, just maybe, you can find a piece of yourself in this deified junk heap. After Vince left to let in some visitors, I was sitting there, sweaty, and just listening to the sound of this old aluminum floppy disk from NASA. And I did find a peace of myself, from before my time in Austin. Before I had any real notion of what was weird or not.
Andrew Weber [00:19:04] This is a keychain from my high school. Highland Park Scots. This place has everything.
Andrew Weber [00:19:17] On paper, it was objectively weird. Some guy lets you in his backyard, lets you amble through his colossal three-story mound of structurally sound garbage and concrete and knick-knacks without any real questions. And among that detritus, you find a piece of your own history, molded into it. I can’t objectively answer the question of whether the city is still weird. Austin’s weird has died many deaths. Everyone has their own weird little bubble that bursts when a venue closes or the Let’s go up. But Vince says that weird is also being continuously born again.
Vince Hanneman [00:19:54] I guess we all have to reinvent, keep Austin weird every day, you know? It’s a whole new generation, so whatever it means to them is what it means for them. But I think probably Austin’s still pretty weird. Whatever. I’m still here.
Andrew Weber [00:20:14] It’s like Red Wasinick, the guy who started this whole conversation when he implored people to keep Austin weird, said, everybody thinks the past was something better.
Vince Hanneman [00:20:24] Come on in!
Andrew Weber [00:20:27] I’m Andrew Weber in Austin.
Jerry Quijano [00:20:46] Austin hinge is upon us this twice annual event where the Sun and Austin’s layout come right together for quite the show Here to share some tips on how to enjoy the event and maybe get some good photos of it, too Is Michael Manassi? He is a multimedia producer here at KUT Michael great to have you back on the show
Michael Minasi [00:21:05] Thanks for having me.
Jerry Quijano [00:21:06] Okay, so tell me exactly what is Austinhenge, you know, because like with Watergate, everything becomes something gate. Is that another one of these issues here? Austinheng, what is it?
Michael Minasi [00:21:16] Actually, it’s exactly like what I gave you. No, henges as they are like kind of known, you know, it comes from like Stonehenge and it’s just all about the alignment of sun in a larger frame. And famously it happens in Manhattan and it is quite a like a to do there. Like a lot of people will come out and go take pictures and videos and check out the hinge together. It happens here in Austin as well because like most cities, we have a grid downtown and that grid is kind of perfect for at some point during the year lining up with the way the sun sets or rises.
Jerry Quijano [00:21:59] Yeah, you mentioned Austin’s not the only one. I’m guessing that Austin’s happens at a certain time of year and that’s different compared to when it happens in New York. Exactly.
Michael Minasi [00:22:07] Right, in fact, it’ll happen literally at different times within Austin, depending on which part of Austin you’re in and what grid you’re looking.
Jerry Quijano [00:22:15] Okay, okay, that makes sense. Well, this sounds like one of those events that definitely captures the attention of lots of people and cameras as well, because it sounds like it can create quite a cool visual effect. As a photographer, what tips do you have for folks who might be trying to take the best picture?
Michael Minasi [00:22:34] Yeah, if you happen to be wanting to check this out, you know, it would be happening. Honestly, it’s starting to happen now and we’ll go through the weekend and a couple days after that, where you’ll start to get these kind of perfect alignments between the grid and the sun. And the best way to capture those are with one, a really, really long lens, a telephoto lens, which will really compress the sun and make it look larger and more impressive. While also condensing all the buildings and making them a really cool frame for the sun. The other thing is to make sure you show up a little bit earlier than you think you need to because we see the sun in the sky all day and we don’t think of it as moving fast, but once you’re talking about the horizon, that sun can go from right there in front of you to gone pretty quick and you don’t wanna miss it. So it’s a good idea to show up a little early.
Jerry Quijano [00:23:28] Okay, and I would imagine as well it’s good to prioritize safety, because I’ve seen some of these Manhattanhenge videos where it seems like people are right smack in the middle of a road sometimes. I’m guessing you don’t advise doing that for the best photo.
Michael Minasi [00:23:40] Yeah, no, don’t get hit by cars for photos. That’s rule number one for me. But yeah, try to avoid going in the middle of roads. If you can find a higher vantage point like a bridge or something that has like a pedestrian spot, that’s a good spot to check it out. And yeah, be safe out there.
Jerry Quijano [00:24:02] Okay, Michael, last question before you get out of here. My old Photo J professor, he absolutely hated pictures of sunrises and sunsets. He was like, that is so boring. And I would never, I guess I’m taking this personally because I would take a lot of those photos. Personally, do you find sunset, sunrising photos, you know, they can really be something special?
Michael Minasi [00:24:25] Photojournalism professors, photography professors, infamously very snotty about their photos. Sunsets are beautiful. Sunsats are gorgeous. They give us golden light, golden hour, as photographers like to call it. And it’s one of the most coolest times you’ll see all day. So check it out.
Jerry Quijano [00:24:46] All right, and you mentioned that the Austin Henge is essentially going on already. Is there like a best day that people can be out there or is it kind of varied by where you’re at and what time you happen to be looking towards the sun?
Michael Minasi [00:24:59] Yeah, pretty much if you go any time between like now and Monday, Tuesday, you’ll get some of the effect and it’ll just change the amount of minutes that that like perfect lineup happens around sunset.
Jerry Quijano [00:25:13] All right, that is Michael Manassi. He is a multimedia producer here at KUT. Michael, always great to talk with you. Thanks for having me. And thank you for spending your Friday here with us. This is KUT News. We are listener-powered public radio. And this is Austin Signal. We are with you every weekday afternoon at 1 o’clock right here on KUT, There’s more from us at kut.org slash signal. Rene Chavez is our technical director, Alexandra Hart is our producer, Kristen Cabrera is our managing producer. I’m your host, Jerry Quijano. We’re gonna be back same time on Monday. Have a safe weekend.
This transcript was transcribed by AI, and lightly edited by a human. Accuracy may vary. This text may be revised in the future.
