Texas Standard

Texas Standard talked with Bob Odenkirk during SXSW about his new film “Normal.” Now, it’s hitting theatres. This extended conversation goes beyond why he loves the new film to include how he feels he adds to the action genre and why he votes “Rushmore” for the best Texas film. He also gets real about how he feels about Texas barbecue and film incentives from state to state.

The full transcript of this episode of Texas Standard is available on the KUT & KUTX Studio website. The transcript is also available as subtitles or captions on some podcast apps.

Laura Rice: Hi there, Laura Rice here with a Texas Extra extended and special content for our podcast listeners, Texas Standard. Talked with Bob Odenkirk during South by Southwest about his new film Normal. Now it’s hitting. Theaters. This extended conversation goes beyond why he loves the new film, to include how he feels he adds to the action genre and why he votes Rushmore for the best Texas film.

He also gets real about how he feels about Texas barbecue and film incentives from state to state. Check it out. You’ve got it tuned to the Texas Standard. I’m Laura Rice. Bob Odenkirk has made a career out of transformation. His early breakthrough came in the sketch series, Mr. Show, where he portrayed everyone from a blistering dixiecrat senator took.

Clueless TV producers. Years later, Odenkirk introduced the fast talking lawyer, Saul Goodman on Breaking Bad a character who might have stayed a comic side note, but instead became the complicated center of the spinoff. Better call Saul. More recently, Odin Kirk has taken another turn. Luc. Action star, starting with the bruising thriller, nobody.

And now with a new film that got its US premier in Austin at South by Southwest, he’s leaned into a different kind of performance. One that still carries his comic instincts, but adds a lot more fists, bullets, and broken bones. His latest film is called Normal. In it, Odenkirk plays a temporary small town sheriff who discovers that.

A town that seems almost too perfect is hiding a deadly secret one. The locals will kill. To protect. I’m thrilled to have Bob Odenkirk in the studio with me now. Bob, welcome to the Texas Standard.

Bob Odenkirk: It’s great to be here. Thank you so much. We had a screening yesterday here in Austin. Uh, we’re showing the film on 35 millimeter in a few places just to get people excited about the opening on April 17th.

And also because the movie feels like it should be seen on film, like it feels like an old style of movie.

Laura Rice: Yeah.

Bob Odenkirk: Uh. And, and it will be played on film in, uh, quite a few cities actually.

Laura Rice: That’s really

Bob Odenkirk: fun. And in its normal run, starting April 17th, the, they made five copies. So five cities will show it on film, but it’ll also be in your local theater, um, as digital.

Piece, like it is like every other film.

Laura Rice: Well, you said you are really legitimately excited about this film. I love this movie. You’ve done a lot of great, uh, great stuff, but this is one you wanna

Bob Odenkirk: watch again. Well, a couple things about normal, I mean, Derek Holstead wrote a great script. It’s an action film, which he is the master of, but also it has suspense and comedy in it, which, um, made it stand out from the other stories that he pitched to me.

Um, and I. I don’t even feel like I’ve seen a good suspense movie in a while where there’s something funny going on and that guy’s trying to sort it out. Um, so, uh, no Country for Old Men was great. Mm-hmm. And, but it’s, I just haven’t seen one in a while. And, um, and then it’s very funny too, and Ben Wheatley, um, is.

Wonderful director who was the perfect person for the job because he brings a lot of humor to the violence. Um, he kind of pushes it over the top, uh, quite a few times. And you can only laugh at these, uh, you know, there’s somewhat like, um, horror film moments. The truth is you’ve seen this kind of. Blown up violence in, uh, some horror film

Laura Rice: like blood bath wise.

Bob Odenkirk: Yeah. That makes you laugh. Yeah. Because something big and bloody happens. Yeah. Um, and there’s like happenstance, um, violence too that shouldn’t, like, it just happens in the course of the mess that’s made people fall over and blow up. So it’s uh, it’s fun. Yeah. It’s got Ben Wheatley’s. Uh. Vibe is all over this film, and I do love watching it.

I watched it yesterday with the crew here, and I’ll watch it again in two days in Boston.

Laura Rice: Yeah.

Bob Odenkirk: And I can’t wait to see it. Yeah.

Laura Rice: Well, I, I gotta say there’s nothing more Western than a log line that includes the words small town. Yeah. Sheriff, right? Yeah. How did you feel about doing, you know, this neo western, what does the genre mean to you?

Bob Odenkirk: What does the genre mean to me? Lone Man, small town, uh, guy against the world. Um, you know, one of my favorite films or favorite, uh, styles of film is the Spaghetti Western with Clint Eastwood. And there’s some comparison here to that. You know, this lone guy, Ulysses, played by myself, comes to this small town current day, and um, the town is.

Half boarded up, but the other half is doing pretty damn well. Hmm. And, uh, something’s going on. There’s something that’s not right about normal and he kind of doesn’t want to see it. Right. So he’s kind of emotionally shut down and removed.

Laura Rice: Mm-hmm.

Bob Odenkirk: Which has some similarities to a lot of Western heroes.

Laura Rice: Right.

Bob Odenkirk: Um, and then it’s a showdown and then it’s a. He has to involve the town, which if you know the Clint Eastwood film, high Plains Drifter, there’s some comparison there. And I know there’s comparisons to High Noon and Bad Day at BlackRock. Um, those are westerns that this film. Is, uh, derived somewhat from

Laura Rice: well after decades of playing characters who talked their way out of trouble.

I wonder, is it, is it satisfying or maybe something else to,

Bob Odenkirk: to punch your way out of trouble? Yeah. Yeah, it’s great.

Laura Rice: Yeah.

Bob Odenkirk: I love it. Yeah, it’s really cathartic, but I, I need a lot of catharsis.

Laura Rice: Did you

Bob Odenkirk: expect, I, I love comedy and I love, uh, fake violence.

Laura Rice: Yeah. I was gonna say, did you expect at this point in your career to be doing No.

Like, fight scenes and No. Is it a whole different level of

Bob Odenkirk: Yeah.

Laura Rice: Yeah. Figuring out, I mean, ’cause it’s just, it’s not.

Bob Odenkirk: It’s as surprising your body to me, right? Is it is to anybody. And the truth is, when I trained for nobody, which I trained for two years, and movies take a long time to set up, if anybody studied film, you know, that maybe your favorite film maybe took five years, maybe took eight years to get to the screen, maybe longer.

Um, I was training for. To do the film. Nobody with a, a stunt team and a stunt actor named Daniel Bernhardt. And I, uh, the whole time thinking they’ll never make this movie,

Laura Rice: but at least you’re getting in shape and

Bob Odenkirk: at least I’m getting in shape.

Laura Rice: Yeah.

Bob Odenkirk: And I don’t really care, you know, they’re giving me free, free gym time, free exercise lessons.

Mm-hmm. I learned so much about physical, uh, maintenance and. You know, pushing yourself. And, uh, so I was happy to just get that out of this. And then we got to make the movie. And in making the movie, I discovered how, how much fun it is to do screen fighting.

Laura Rice: Yeah.

Bob Odenkirk: A lot more fun than I thought. Now the training is training and it engages your brain and your body and that’s great, but when you get to the set.

You have to somewhat reinvent what you’ve made, no matter how much you’ve practiced it.

Laura Rice: Mm-hmm.

Bob Odenkirk: You are, you find yourself in a real location and things are sort of a little different. And there’s also some opportunities for comic choices or just surprising choices. Yeah. And you, you can’t help but go like, you know.

Let’s use this. You know, if we had a fight in here, I’d go like, Hey guys, look at this thing. It moves, like, how can we use that in, in the fight that we’re doing? Yeah. You know, and you that, that. It elevates that fight at the, at the, when you get to the set.

Laura Rice: Mm. I was gonna ask how your, how your comic timing comes into that, but you, you sort of anticipated that it’s sort of being on your toes.

It doesn’t ever just

Bob Odenkirk: fully fall. When I was doing the bus fight scene and nobody, which was the first big fight scene I ever did, and I trained for that for a long time and I helped plan that fight. But here we are shooting three nights, uh, all night and a team of stunt guys who are great. The best in the world, and we’re finding things to do and we’re laughing after each take.

And I thought, this is just like being in a comedy writer’s room because we have a problem to solve. We have a fight, but we wanna make it better and we wanna discover moments. And uh, so I was very surprised at the, the feeling of, uh. How much we were, uh, engaged, inventive, and discovering things that were making us all very entertained.

Yeah. So I, that has carried through with all the fight scenes I’ve done.

Laura Rice: Yeah. ’cause you gotta be game. It’s that, that yes and attitude,

Bob Odenkirk: you know, chain guns is not as, um, you kind of can. Create things as much, at least in my experience. Yeah. When a person is, you know, 30 feet away or even 15 feet away and you’ve got this choreographed move with a gun, but when you get into fighting and the location and objects, that’s when you, it really.

It can be rediscovered. Yeah. In the moment.

Laura Rice: It makes me think pro wrestling is next for you, so Yeah.

Bob Odenkirk: Yeah. I, I don’t think I could sell that. Movies. You have the lens, you have lighting. Yeah. You have all kinds of things that I to sell. You’ve got another take.

Laura Rice: Yeah,

Bob Odenkirk: yeah,

Laura Rice: yeah. Yeah. I appreciate that.

Bob Odenkirk: Also, I get to act, let’s not.

Um, my films in action are not wall-to-wall action like, uh, some action stars. Um, my character sort of has to earn or deserve his, uh, retribution and also I think. That I need to get you on my side. Hmm. Or have you understand and like the character, um, so that you stay with me. There are action stars who are just fun to watch and you’re just gonna wanna watch them fight from the get go to the end, and that’s why you’re here.

In my case, it’s more of a, you know, um, tell me why I’m, I’m with this guy.

Laura Rice: Mm-hmm.

Bob Odenkirk: And, uh, the, um. Rage that he’s going to unleash. Why? Why do I think that’s a good thing or potentially a good thing?

Laura Rice: Yeah. Well, I wonder if that’s reflected a little bit and, and maybe it’s just happenstance, but nobody normal.

These are like, these are, what are these titles and they’re

Bob Odenkirk: mislead casting you in here. They’re saying it’s gonna be. It’s the opposite of what the title is. Yeah. And, and people know that. And it makes ’em, you know, smile. I hope and, and realize that there’s a cheeky, uh, undercurrent to everything I’m doing.

Like I’m in on the joke. Yeah. I, I know that it’s fun and funny and entertaining to see me in this capacity, but then. I do it unironically except for the duck boat fight in, uh, nobody. Two, which was an attempt to do a little bit of an homage to Jackie Chan because, um, one of the reasons I’m doing action movies is ’cause of Jackie Chan’s movie police story

Laura Rice: with the bus,

Bob Odenkirk: which, uh.

I, uh, watched with my kids when we were having some emotionally challenging times in our family. And this film, Jackie’s films don’t really have a lot of blood in them or any blood at all. Um, when people get shot, they just go, Ooh, and there’s no blood splatter or anything. Um, so it’s a little more like Looney Tunes.

Um. And it’s great for being that so in nobody too. I wanted to do one fight that was my. Uh, nod to Jackie and, and what the joy and connection that, that, that his film police story brought to my family and that since it’s a family on vacation, I thought this is a perfect time for that fight. And we did a fight on a duck boat and why did I go down this road just to say that most of my fights, uh, are onic.

Um, I don’t wink at the camera. Mm-hmm. Um. You smile and laugh. Sometimes the violence is surprising and sometimes it is so over the top that there’s nothing else to do but laugh.

Laura Rice: Mm.

Bob Odenkirk: Um, there’s certainly a great moment in normal where, um, I’m trapped in the bank and we have this grenade launcher, and then I won’t tell you what happens next, but you can’t help but laugh at the, at what the filmmaker chose to have happen.

Um. So the humor in my fights is not, um, a smart ecky, uh, Bob Odenkirk sensibility. It’s, it’s the earnest drama of, of fighting that fight.

Laura Rice: Yeah.

Bob Odenkirk: And then the laughs come elsewhere in other ways.

Laura Rice: Well, I. You’ve tied that in really well and, and you know how your comedy led you to be a, an, an open and willing player in, in this, in this action sense

Bob Odenkirk: how I made an ass of myself for 30 years,

Laura Rice: but

Bob Odenkirk: what I was naked in Radio City Music Hall for Comic Relief eight for a comedy scene.

Totally naked.

Laura Rice: Yeah. Well, is it that vulnerability that helps you find the dramatic. Parts too, or, or where do you, where did you Deep, deep, deep

Bob Odenkirk: down to find

Laura Rice: that. Absolutely.

Bob Odenkirk: No. Absolutely.

Laura Rice: Yeah.

Bob Odenkirk: David Carr. Do you know who David Carr was? Great journalist for the New York Times. Um, he went by the moniker, the carpet bagger in the New York Times for years.

Yeah. And he did a lot of reporting on entertainment. He did many kinds of reporting over his lifetime and he wrote a great biography, uh, autobiography called, um, the Night of the Gun, which you should get. Hmm, it’s a great book. Um, but he interviewed me for Better Call Saul, and he had watched me do a particularly challenging scene.

You know, one that sort of was about interior feelings and it was kind of unpleasant and challenging. Uh, and he goes, I don’t know how you do what you do. And I said, I know how I do it. I have poor emotional boundaries. Uh, and it’s sort of like, uh, that’s true.

Laura Rice: Yeah.

Bob Odenkirk: And, and I know that, and I know I can. I can access things that probably shouldn’t be so easy to access, like you should be holding those in a little better.

Um, but, uh, hey man, I make money out of it. Well, that’s what we’re all about, right?

Laura Rice: Yeah. I mean, you’re

Bob Odenkirk: find your, find your fault and turn it into cold hard cash.

Laura Rice: It’s, well, your characters are, are often

Bob Odenkirk: No, I, I The vulnerability is. Yeah. Uh, here, here’s another reason I love normal. It’s the first time I play a character who’s my age and who’s lived life I, that I feel I can really relate to, um, the character of Ulysses at the beginning of the film.

Is, uh, kind of hiding inside himself. He’s tells his story and he tells the story of a guy who was, uh, very confident and proud of himself, and then made some choices that weren’t good and lost that confidence. Mm-hmm. So that’s where we have him to start.

Laura Rice: Mm-hmm.

Bob Odenkirk: And that’s the story of, uh. I would say, and a lot of people can relate to that when they get older.

Um, aware that as a young person, they had a bravado that was kind of wonderful, but that life chipped away at, or pulled the rug out from under it, uh, in one fell swoop as it happened with Ulysses.

Laura Rice: Mm-hmm.

Bob Odenkirk: And then he, in the course of the film has to rediscover, um, his, um. Connection to, uh, he has to put himself back in the mix.

He has to, will, will himself back into, um, engagement with the world. Highfalutin, uh, themes for a really, just a fun, a fun fucking movie where people die a million different ways.

Laura Rice: Um, I guess one similarity, this is this idea of the underdog though, right? Sure. Do you think you’re drawn to that or do you think people write these for you?

Bob Odenkirk: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I’m, yeah, yeah, yeah. I look for that.

Laura Rice: Yeah.

Bob Odenkirk: Yeah. I don’t think I could sell. Um, look, there’s all different kinds of action leads and, um, some of them are. Impregnable supermen who are super fun to watch. Mm-hmm. And you know they’re gonna win and they know they’re gonna win. And that’s cool.

’cause how they do it and how. How sure you are that they are going to do it

Laura Rice: right,

Bob Odenkirk: is kind of part of the fun.

Laura Rice: Yeah.

Bob Odenkirk: And that sounds wrong, because shouldn’t you doubt their ability? But no, it’s fun to watch some of the leads that we have and go like, oh, this guy’s gonna kick their ass. They don’t even know what they got coming.

And then watch me and go like, wait, I don’t think he’s gonna survive this fight. I’m, I know he’s the lead,

Laura Rice: right?

Bob Odenkirk: I know he should, but. If I’m doing it right, somewhere in the middle of the flight, you go, I think he’s gonna lose this one. And I also think that maybe you see on my face as the character. I think I’m gonna lose this one.

And, and I like that. And that’s something I can do and it’s something I can bring to the genre, you know, that, that other people maybe don’t want to bring or can’t bring or just wouldn’t think of it. Yeah. So even when you, when you step into something like this. I did ask myself, what if I think I want to do this?

What am I doing? What am I adding to the mix? Mm-hmm. And I, and I did the math and I’m not the most, um, action savvy, uh, movie goer. Um, I like the born films and I see those. And in those, that guy is incredibly capable. And the fun thing there is he doesn’t really know what his own secret is,

Laura Rice: right?

Bob Odenkirk: But when he fights, he’s kind of, he doesn’t, he’s kind of removed and he is great.

And in my move, my movie, my guy is for different reasons and nobody in normal. One guy is holding it in and desperately wants to fight the guy, and nobody, he’s like, please, somebody challenge me. Um, but I’m gonna hold it in until that happens. I’m not gonna let this beast out of me until someone forces it outta me.

But please do it. Please do it. And in, in normal, he’s like, I am not going to. Push back. I’m not even gonna investigate this world.

Laura Rice: Mm.

Bob Odenkirk: There’s a moment e early on in the film normal where my character, as you said, is a temporary sheriff he’s filling in. The previous sheriff died, and it’s not that mysterious the circumstances, but Ulysses has instincts and he’s looking at the death certificate and he’s going, really?

Did that happen? And then he just puts it away. He doesn’t wanna know.

Laura Rice: Right.

Bob Odenkirk: He really doesn’t want to. Engage.

Laura Rice: Mm.

Bob Odenkirk: So he’s kind of, in a weird way, 180 degrees from emotionally, from Hutch in, uh, nobody.

Laura Rice: Yeah. We’ve been here in Austin to promote this for South by Southwest

Bob Odenkirk: South. We got to show on film yesterday.

Oh, it’s great. Listen, I’ve been to South by a number of times. I, my son’s, uh, very silly. Um, um. Book, uh, audio book. Uh, we did a big presentation here, um, uh, on Audible. And, um, I did, uh, run Ronnie Run, uh, played here. Uh, I won the audience award for a film. I directed Melvin Ghost to Dinner. I think it was the first year maybe of the film section.

Laura Rice: Amazing.

Bob Odenkirk: Maybe, I don’t know, um, or fact check that. But we won the audience award, uh, for Melvin goes to dinner, uh, which was a great. Thing to do. And um, and I’ve been here other times for interviews and things like that. It’s, it’s a great festival and a great town, and if you want to eat all the barbecue you can.

Eat. You need to, you need, I think you need two weeks

Laura Rice: here. Mm, yeah. Well, I

Bob Odenkirk: You would, right?

Laura Rice: Oh,

Bob Odenkirk: I don’t, I mean, I, it sounds

Laura Rice: like I’m, I don’t think I could even do a back to back like it, it’s so, it it sits with you with I have to,

Bob Odenkirk: does

Laura Rice: sit

Bob Odenkirk: with

Laura Rice: you, take some time in

Bob Odenkirk: between some barbecue meals. Can I, I came down and like everybody, I went right for the barbecue and I ate a lot.

Yeah, but I didn’t eat too much, but I ate a lot and I think it put me to sleep. Yeah. And it was awesome. It was, you know, you shouldn’t sleep well. It’s like, like you shouldn’t sleep well when your stomach’s full, but I slept. So

Laura Rice: it’s like the Turkey dinner coma. It’s like,

yeah.

Bob Odenkirk: Did they put a little THC in the barbecue sauce?

That’s what I got. I got the C-B-D-T-H-C.

Laura Rice: Those are secret recipes.

Bob Odenkirk: C bn. Yes. Barbecue sauce.

Laura Rice: Um, well, well, I got you. I gotta ask. We’re doing a March Madness is starting up. We’re pitting all of the best Texas movies against one another.

Bob Odenkirk: Oh, okay. Not March Madness, uh, basketball.

Laura Rice: Well, to play off of that, so, but we’re,

Bob Odenkirk: we’re making it about US

Laura Rice: sports.

Bob Odenkirk: I know. College sports. I’m gonna make it. I only follow the Cubs and the Bears now. Yeah.

Laura Rice: Um, so I’m gonna,

Bob Odenkirk: but I can’t wait to go to Wrigley, but new movie in, in two weeks. Yes. See some, see a game. Yeah.

Laura Rice: That’d be so fun.

Bob Odenkirk: And I was at Spring training with the Cubs too. Oh my goodness. Yeah, it was great. Yeah.

It’s gonna be a good team this year. Yeah.

Laura Rice: Well they,

Bob Odenkirk: but go ahead. I

Laura Rice: won’t quit the one. What do

Bob Odenkirk: I have to

Laura Rice: do? You have to pick a movie. What’s your favorite Texas movie? Going all the way back to like giant last picture show. Then there’s the newer like link later stuff. There’s the Cohen Brothers you mentioned No Country for Old Men.

Mo. It has to be about Texas and have been shot a bit in Texas. So like Dallas Buyers Clubs off the table. Lonesome Dove. Count was on tv. Where did they shoot?

Bob Odenkirk: Dallas Buyers Club.

Laura Rice: Apparently. That was in New Orleans area.

Bob Odenkirk: Oh, I really love that movie.

Laura Rice: Yeah, I didn’t, I didn’t realize it wasnt. Not

Bob Odenkirk: at all. I think that’s a great film.

Laura Rice: Yeah.

Bob Odenkirk: Why didn’t they shoot a year? What’s wrong?

Laura Rice: Well, the incentives is always the debate. Sick. Right. Texas is getting back in in the game though, with the incentives. Yeah. What do you think?

Bob Odenkirk: I think everybody should pay their taxes. You ies Jesus Christ. How do we have streets and sidewalks and firemen? We pay our taxes.

Okay, that’s enough. Stop that. Um, uh uh. Okay.

Laura Rice: You wanna look at

Bob Odenkirk: a bracket? I’ll look at out list. All right. Lemme see. Lemme get it. You might surprise me. Right? Like I would say no country for old men. It’s a great film. Uh,

Laura Rice: it’s a great film, but like the best bad guy ever, right. There you go. Here’s, here’s the bracket.

Ooh, let me get it to you. It’s just begun too. So there’s like, I know. It gets, it’s hard.

Bob Odenkirk: So there’s so many great movies. Oh, uh oh,

Laura Rice: I know. And then

Bob Odenkirk: Tinder Mercies

Laura Rice: is a

Bob Odenkirk: favorite because, you

Laura Rice: know, we

Bob Odenkirk: just lost Bob. Wow. These are great movies.

Laura Rice: I know.

Bob Odenkirk: Um, I wanna. Uh, guys, these are great movies

Laura Rice: and how do you pit ’em against one another?

Bob Odenkirk: Yeah,

Laura Rice: yeah,

Bob Odenkirk: yeah.

Laura Rice: Then there’s something like the Texas,

Bob Odenkirk: I was on that, I was gonna say Paris, Texas when you first asked me, but is it because of the word Texas is in the title?

Laura Rice: I mean, Paris,

Bob Odenkirk: Texas is, um, it’s a good movie.

Laura Rice: Is amazing. Yeah,

Bob Odenkirk: it’s a good movie. It’s, you should see it Dazed and confused. I loved, um, uh,

Laura Rice: limited it to two link later ’cause he’s just too prolific.

There’s too many good ones.

Bob Odenkirk: Well, I’m gonna go with Rushmore.

Laura Rice: Mm. Yeah.

Bob Odenkirk: It’s my favorite Wes Anderson film.

Laura Rice: Yeah.

Bob Odenkirk: Yeah.

Laura Rice: You lo I love that character. The

Bob Odenkirk: I,

Laura Rice: Jason Schwartzman.

Bob Odenkirk: It’s the bridge obviously between bottle rocket. Mm-hmm. Look at and almost the refinement of his, uh, style.

Laura Rice: Yeah. Like

Bob Odenkirk: the Royal

Laura Rice: Pin EALs.

And

Bob Odenkirk: I like that it’s not. He’s not fully refined yet in Rushmore, and uh, I find that to be the most, um, human uh, feeling. Of his films where the feelings of the characters are not entirely, uh, ironic or at a held, at an ironic distance. So I think Rushmore

Laura Rice: Alright, you heard it from Bob Odenkirk. Bob Odenkirk was in Austin for the US Premier of Normal, which hits theaters April 17th.

Bob, thank you so much.

Bob Odenkirk: Thank you.

Laura Rice: Yay. You were so great. I was appreciate You were great. Yes. How about my

Bob Odenkirk: political rant?

This transcript was transcribed by AI, and lightly edited by a human. Accuracy may vary. This text may be revised in the future.