In Black America

On this week’s In Black America, producer and host John L. Hanson, Jr. presents a 1982 interview with the late Shirley A. Chisholm, a former Congresswoman from New York’s 12 Congressional District who in 1968 became the first African American woman elected to Congress, and, in 1972, the first major-party African American candidate for President of the United States.

The full transcript of this episode of In Black America is available on the KUT & KUTX Studio website. The transcript is also available as subtitles or captions on some podcast apps.

Announcer From the University of Texas at Austin, KUT Radio, this is In Black America.

Shirley A. Chisholm No, of course, I wasn’t satisfied with the response I got, but I expected that response, which is a racist, sexist country. And I’m a twofer. I’m not only a female, but I’m Black. But I did it because I felt that in a multifaceted, variegated nation like this one, Why should only white males be the president of the United States of America? I did it because I felt it was necessary to begin to get people thinking about someday, somewhere, somehow a Black person or a woman could president of this country. I know they would laugh at me. They would giggle because any time anybody goes against a tradition, they tend to think of you as an oddball. But the catalyst for change in a society is always the person that has to take the insults and a mission to break the barriers down in society. So I’m a very strong person, and I did. And I don’t regret it one bit, but I didn’t expect to win. I really didn’t expect to win, but I knew that I would be able to break away some of that feeling that only a certain segment of society should only be the group in our society to feel that they can be the head of the ship of state.

John L. Hanson Jr. The late Shirley A. Chisholm, former Congresswoman, New York’s 12th Congressional District. In 1968, Chisholm became the first African-American woman elected to Congress. She went on to represent Brooklyn for seven terms from 1969 to 1983. In 1972, she became the first major party African-American candidate for president of the United States and the first woman to run for the Democratic presidential nomination. Throughout her career in Congress, Chisholm worked to improve opportunities for inner city residents. She was a vocal opponent of the draft and supported spending increases for education, health care and other social services and reduction in military spending. She was a founding member of the Congressional Black Caucus, a fierce advocate for women’s rights and democracy, and the staunch opponent of the Vietnam War. Chisholm died on January 1st, 2005, at the age of 80. I’m John L. Hanson Jr. and welcome to another edition of In Black America. On this week’s program, a tribute to Shirley A. Chisholm, In Black America.

Shirley A. Chisholm Well, when I first went to the United States House of Representatives, it was a little bit difficult because they had never had to deal with a Black who is female in the House of Representatives. I was the first one to be elected to that position. I think the most difficult thing at that point, however, was the fact that they couldn’t seem to understand how I was so terribly articulate and not afraid of anything or anybody. Because I guess in terms of the traditional historical patterns of how they perceived Black women, you’re supposed to be more or less subservient and almost bow when you see them in the chamber. It was very difficult for them to understand that I just was not of that ilk. But I’d like to say that within 3 or 4 months, actually, when they realized that I had potential, I had a bility and that I was very serious about what I was doing. That their attitudes change and I’ve never had any problems, you know, since since that time.

John L. Hanson Jr. Chisholm’s leadership traits were recognized by her parents early on. She was the first African-American woman elected to Congress. She was a passionate and effective advocate for the needs of minorities, women and children. And it’s changed the nation perception of the capabilities of women and African-Americans. Born Shirley Anita, Saint Hill in New York City on November 30th of 1924. She was the oldest of four daughters of Caribbean immigrants. In 1927, she and her sisters were sent to live with the maternal grandparents in Barbados. In 1934, she rejoined the parents in New York City in 1942. She graduated from Girls High School with honors. Chisholm attended Brooklyn College and majored in sociology. She graduated with honors from Brooklyn College in 1946. She began a professional career at Mount Calvary Childcare Center in Harlem, eventually becoming director of a daycare center and later serves as an educational consultant for the city’s childcare department. She became active in local Democratic politics and ran successfully for the state assembly in 1964. She served for four years. In 1968, she ran for the United States Congress. She was elected from the newly created 12th District of New York City. She became the first African-American woman elected to Congress. In February 1982 and Black America spoke with the late Shirley Chisholm.

Shirley A. Chisholm The issue facing Black Americans in the 80s are the same issues that have consistently and persistently confronted us the issues of employment, the fantastic escalation of the unemployment statistics in the Black communities across this nation. Almost incomprehensible. I’ve been traveling quite a bit, and in many of these communities, the statistics are as high as 40% of the employable Black adults not working. This is a devastation of human potential and its worst form. And of course, once a man has a job. Once a man has employment, it is very easy then for him to do the additional things in society that are necessary and get the kind of housing that he needs because he has the money to pay for the kind of housing he able to put aside money for potential educational training of his sons and daughters. Employment continues to be the number one issue in the Black community.

John L. Hanson Jr. You mentioned today in your address a new women’s movement. Could you expand on that further?

Shirley A. Chisholm We are about the business are realizing that we have to harness the power of women in this country because it becomes increasingly important at this point in time to recognize that if we are going to bring about the kinds of changes in our society that deals with the human being, that deals with the potential of every child, whether it’s a male child or a female child, or whether it’s a Black person or a white person, that the female who has the compassion, more tolerance, I think, and more understanding. Will have to become much more involved in the political arena. And so as I leave the United States House of Representatives, I’m not sitting down. I’m about some other business in this country.

John L. Hanson Jr. Chisholm represented the Bedford-Stuyvesant section of Brooklyn, New York, serving until she retired in 1983. Also, she was a founding member of the Congressional Black Caucus during a first term in Congress. She had an all female staff and spoke out for civil rights, women’s rights, the poor and against the Vietnam War. Newly elected, she was assigned to the House Agriculture Committee, which she felt was irrelevant to an urban constituency in an unheard of move. She demanded reassignment and was switched to the Veteran Affairs Committee not long after she voted for Halle Box, who was white over John Conyers, who was Black for Majority Leader Boggs, rewarding her with a place on the Education and Labor Committee. And she was his third ranking member when she retired.

Shirley A. Chisholm Well, when I first went to the United States House of Representatives, it was a little bit difficult because they’d never had to deal with a Black who is female in the House of Representatives. I, I was the first one to be elected to that position. I think the most difficult thing at that point, however, was the fact that they couldn’t seem to understand how I was so terribly articulate and not afraid of anything or anybody. Because I guess in terms of the traditional historical patterns of how they perceive Black women, you’re supposed to be more or less subservient and almost bow when you see them in the chamber. It was very difficult for them to understand that I just was not of that ilk. But I’d like to say that within 3 or 4 months, actually, when they realized that I had potential, I had a bility and that I was very serious about what I was doing. That their attitudes change and I’ve never had any problems, you know, since since that time. The main reason for my leaving the United States Congress is I as I indicated in that long press release that was sent out to Washington, I desire to return to a more private life where I would have more flexibility of my time, that I had been out here for 23 years and I had not really enjoyed a private life like everybody else. I want to be able to have some privacy. And some 23 years ago, when I first entered the political arena, when I first went to the New York State legislature, I indicated quite clearly that I do not intend I did not intend to spend my creative and productive years ad infinitum in the political arena. But many persons forgot that. I guess because I had been in politics for as long as I have been, that they thought that I would stay there until I guess I was brought out or defeated. But I never in my wildest dreams wanted to spend all of my productive years in a political arena. So that was in the that was in the statement. What is interesting, what people left out of the statement now with respect to the CBC and me, that has nothing to do with the CBC. Don’t try to create any unnecessary situation here. Has nothing to do with the CBC is a personal decision of mine. Just like people make personal decisions day in and day out. That’s my personal decision at this time has absolutely nothing to do with the CBC.

John L. Hanson Jr. You mentioned earlier that poverty is a women’s issue.

Shirley A. Chisholm Yes, poverty is a women’s issue because the majority of women who are in the lower economic bracket of this country are women. Most of the elderly citizens in this country. You go to the senior citizen centers across this nation, see the bulk of them are going in because women live to a much longer age in America than men do for a lot of reasons. I have a lot of widows in this country who are really just subsisting. So when I say poverty is a women’s issue, I mean that the the issue itself is an issue in which women are really disproportionately enumerated. It is definitely a women’s issue. The women who are the heads of their families, we have many single parent households in this country today. And most of those single parent households are headed by women. And most of these women are not even making the don’t even have the poverty level income. So that is why poverty in and of itself today in America is really become a women’s issue. As we listen to the budget messages and as we listen to the explanations given with respect to what the president he should rise his and his cabinet are doing. That on the surface they seem to make sense because be the president of the United States, he’s one of the most charming political personages that I have ever met. But when you begin to really analyze and get your statistics in place and look at the different segments in society who are going to be benefit benefited from the new regulations, and you see that the deception that is being perpetrated, in my humble opinion on the American people, is one that’s giving them the impression that we are going to get this country back on an even keel, that it will be necessary for you to have patience with us while at the very same time, day in and day out, people are suffering. People are not able to pay their mortgages because industrial plants, automobile factories are being closed up all over the country. The kind of income that so many of those elderly citizens who live on fixed incomes have is not permitting them to even enjoy some kind of life. They, in a sense, the president sometimes remind me, as a person who is the captain of the Titanic and as the Titanic is slowly going down, he’s telling us to keep praying until it sinks. And that is the only analogy that I can can really draw. I don’t know if the people are tired or if they have just about given up or they feel that during the first year of the president’s tenure, he has been able to get everything that he’s asked for. So it’s no sense, you know, trying I don’t know what it is. But the one thing that stands out in my mind and I know I keep repeating it because I can’t believe it. And that is here is a president that indicated to us that by 1985, over $1 trillion, almost 60% of our money, that federal tax dollars are going to be spent on the defense and the military. And we are not at war. This is a peacetime economy and nobody seems perturbed about it. I remember back in the days of 60s when we were talking about the Vietnam War, how people got perturbed and began to do something about it. And I wonder if it’s because people are really overcome by his wonderful charm all over. They’re just too tired. I don’t know. But this is frightening. And why it frightens me is because when we do suddenly awaken, it might be too late. One of the most dramatic changes in American society during the past decade. Has certainly been the phenomenon known as the women’s movement. And that movement brought shifting social patterns to every level of life in America. It also has been a part of a greater humanist movement. It was rooted in the continuing struggle of those people in this country who had not been allowed to share in all of the rights and the responsibilities in this democracy. Many women were baptized in activist politics during the marches in Selma and Montgomery. And they began to work towards an end to discrimination against women. They began to fully realize that discrimination on the basis of sex was just the humanizing and just the morally wrong as discrimination on the basis of the color of one’s skin. However, the discrimination against women has traditionally been much more subtle because women occupy every strata of society. This discrimination has also taken very varied forms. But when one looks closely at the history of our nation, one can discern patterns which demonstrate how we in this century arrived at such a distorted and contorted view of women and their capabilities. Our system of laws is based on English common law under which women were essentially considered the property of men. The Constitution of the United States and the Bill of Rights. Were written for and by white men at a time when women and Blacks had no acknowledged rights. They could not vote. Nor could they hold property, let alone open a business or compete in the regular job market with white males. And we all know that the history books are filled with accounts of the bravery and the fortitude of men who blazed new trails, built our institutions and introduced the industrial age. But you have to dig so deep. Define the level that is written about the women who have also been a part of that history. Who are equally involved with the suffering of the rest and the growth of our great city. The women who were forced to take a secondary role simply because of their sex. And the writing of our history books. The running of our government was a role which had almost falling exclusively to men. And so therefore, my sister is Black and white. The accounts that we have of women. Must be studied with the facts firmly in mind. And because the problem of sexism is a complex one and not just limited to the job market, opening the system requires many different kinds of approaches. We have to realize. That we must seek counseling our little girls. That their adulthood will probably be spent in the home and we have to tell them and let them know that alternatives yes to the homemakers life where they will cook so tend to children and achieve any success in the workforce, only vicariously. Now, don’t anyone misinterpret what I’m saying to you. All I am saying is that there is a variety of alternatives for women to become involved in. Not every woman is married. Some of them may choose to be single. So we have to attempt to get away from some of the stereotypical thinking that goes back as far as the 18th century. We’ve got to try to do that. Mr. Gray, don’t laugh so heartily. The sad truth is that America is a racist. I get a anti-feminist, right? And that both of these evils, if you will, indicate a large measure of anti humanism.

John L. Hanson Jr. What are the goals and aspirations of the Congressional Black Caucus?

Shirley A. Chisholm The goals and aspirations of the Congressional Black Caucus continues to be trying to make life better for our people. But we have to face it right now. The Congressional Black Caucus is at a point now where we hardly have any allies. The moderates and the liberals who were with us through the years are all scampering and running, not because they no longer have a commitment, want that to be clearly understood. But it is because the right wing groups in this country, with their awesome control of financial resources and their strongly disciplined troops that they have to carry the message across the states have caused the Congressman to be more cautious than ever in terms of backing those programs and supporting those issues, which they know that the right wing groups are against. And most of those programs and issues, of course, are the kinds of programs and issues that redound to the benefit of the poor and the minorities. So you find a number of congressmen not giving the support and not really building the coalitions that we used to have, because after all, last November, these groups brought about the downfall of the most liberal, moderate, progressive senators that we had in this country. Birch by Culver. McGovern And those gentlemen ran statewide. Therefore, the congressmen, many of them, are feeling that if they could bring those guys down and they ran statewide, what could happen to them when they’re running on in a little piece of the state? So what has happened? Political expediency, in a sense, is become the order of the day.

John L. Hanson Jr. Are Black Americans too Democratic?

Shirley A. Chisholm Black Americans too Democratic. I’m not sure I understand the import of your question.

John L. Hanson Jr. The Democratic Party.

Shirley A. Chisholm I see what you mean. I believe that Black Americans are really going to have to take a good look at both the Republican and the Democratic parties, as I’m concerned, at this stage of my life. I think what Black Americans are going to have to do is to put themselves in a position where they can be a political force to be reckoned with and where they will be able to have the leverage to bargain with either of the two parties where their votes will actually be necessary for either one of the two parties to win. Right now, the Republicans ignore us and about the Democrats take us for granted. And the saying is we have no place to go. You see, I think we to have to really take a look now at what is happened and what is happening to us in this land. And at one time, I was very much against a third party in this country. I’m not as much against a third party, a third force to be reckoned with in this country as I used to be.

John L. Hanson Jr. In 1972, Richard Nixon was president and running for his second term. The voting age had just changed from 21 to 18, and millions of new voters were expected at the polls. The Civil Rights Act was still new. The war in Southeast Asia was in full swing, as were anti-war protests, a beckoning women’s movement, and the rise of the Black Panther Party. Also that year, on January 25th, Chisholm decided to shake up the mix. The brilliant former supervisor of the largest nursery school network in New York and congresswoman from Brooklyn, New York, announced her candidacy for the Democratic presidential nomination. She won 152 delegates before withdrawing from the race and running for president. She became the first African-American woman to campaign for this nation’s highest elected office. Running as a candidate of the people. In doing so, she paved the way for others like herself.

Shirley A. Chisholm Now, of course, I wasn’t satisfied with the response I got, but I expected that response. This is a racist, sexist country, and I’m a twofer. I know I’m not only a female, but I’m Black. But I did it because I felt that in a multifaceted, variegated nation like this one, Why should only white males be the president of the United States of America? I did it because I felt it was necessary to begin to get people thinking about someday, somewhere, somehow a Black person or a woman could be the president of this country. I knew they would laugh at me. They would giggle because any time anybody goes against a tradition, they tend to think of you as an oddball. But the catalyst for change in a society, I’m always the person that has to take the insults and a mission perpetrators to break the barriers down into society. So I’m a very strong person and I did it, and I don’t regret it one bit. But I didn’t expect to win. I really didn’t expect to win. But I knew that I would be able to break away some of that feeling that only a certain segment of society should only be the group in our society to feel that they can be the head of the ship of state.

John L. Hanson Jr. Do Black Americans realize their political clout?

Shirley A. Chisholm I don’t know if you can say Black Americans realize their political clout. Because I daresay if Black Americans realized their political clout, we wouldn’t have what is happening to us in such a dastardly fashion. We have potential political clout if those of us who are eligible for registering would register and participate. Numbers in and of themselves don’t mean a thing. You could have thousands of Blacks living in a certain region, but yet almost powerless and impotent because they do not participate in the electoral process. If we want to truly realize our political clout, we will do that which is necessary to acquire the clout so that we can be a force to be reckoned with.

John L. Hanson Jr. With you leaving the House, are you concerned that a chair will be lost at the Congressional Black Caucus table?

Shirley A. Chisholm No. A chair won’t be lost because my chair will be replaced by another Black from Brooklyn. So a chair won’t be. I can assure you that the seat will definitely be going to a Black person. I’m very, very happy to say that in the past 15 years I have been very involved in helping to put together and strategizing. And about nine campaigns across this country and seven of the women, one, because women basically don’t they haven’t been a part of the old boys network. And they feel that sometimes because they’re articulate, because they have a knowledge of the issues and because they are popular that they should run for political office. Do you much more to running for political office? I hope to be able to teach them something about strategizing. Women as a whole know absolutely nothing about strategizing in terms of planning for political office. So I hope to be able to do that kind of thing and different parts of the country.

John L. Hanson Jr. Why did you decide to enter the political arena?

Shirley A. Chisholm I entered politics by popular demand. I’m a professional educator. I have three degrees in the area of education and I always thought I would stay in education. But I used to organize people, take them to budget estimate hearings and city council hearings. And I’ve always been a kind of fearless individual, afraid of nobody speak up sometimes, I guess. But I was not supposed to speak up. And people like people that have nerve and guts. And I guess I exhibited that and people said, you need to go into politics. And so that’s how I got into power through the people. I’ve always been a people’s politician because I’ve been a maverick. I’ve been very independent. I’ve been somewhat controversial. I’ve been told every year some politician meets me, say you’re committing political suicide, but I’ve been committing political suicide for 23 years. And here I am late.

John L. Hanson Jr. Shirley Chisholm, former congresswoman to a congressional district, New York City. If you have questions, comments or suggestions as to your future In Black America programs, email us at inblackamerica.org. Also, let us know what radio station you heard is over it. Don’t forget to subscribe to our podcast and follow us on Facebook and X. You can hear previous programs online at kut.org. Also, you can listen to a special collection of In Black America programs at American Archive of Public Broadcasting. That’s americanarchives.org. The views and opinions expressed on this program are not necessarily those of this station or of the University of Texas at Austin. Until we have the opportunity again for technical producer David Alvarez, I’m John L. Hanson Jr. Thank you for joining us today. Please join us again next week.

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This transcript was transcribed by AI, and lightly edited by a human. Accuracy may vary. This text may be revised in the future.