1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:00,900 Laura Rice: Hello again. 2 00:00:00,930 --> 00:00:03,390 It's Laura Rice with a Texas Extra. 3 00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:07,380 This time we're revisiting my interview with the author of a new 4 00:00:07,380 --> 00:00:09,720 biography about Larry McMurtry. 5 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:14,970 David Streitfeld, the writer of Western Star, got to do something. 6 00:00:14,970 --> 00:00:17,250 I unfortunately never did. 7 00:00:17,550 --> 00:00:20,490 Interview McMurtry, but much more than that. 8 00:00:20,490 --> 00:00:22,170 The two became friends. 9 00:00:22,380 --> 00:00:27,570 So Streitfeld and I had a lot more to talk about than fit into our allotted 10 00:00:27,570 --> 00:00:30,360 time for Texas Standards Radio broadcast. 11 00:00:30,660 --> 00:00:35,250 We talked extensively about Lonesome Dove, and in this longer cut, you'll 12 00:00:35,250 --> 00:00:39,960 hear a little more about McMurtry's reaction to the television mini series, 13 00:00:40,019 --> 00:00:46,000 and whether McMurtry himself was more of an Augustus McCrae or a Woodrow Call. 14 00:00:46,300 --> 00:00:49,810 We also talked more about what Streitfeld hopes readers would 15 00:00:49,810 --> 00:00:51,160 get out of this new book. 16 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:55,780 You'll also learn just a little bit about me in this extended 17 00:00:55,780 --> 00:01:00,850 interview and why I named one of my kids after a McMurtry character. 18 00:01:01,239 --> 00:01:01,780 Hope you enjoy. 19 00:01:02,879 --> 00:01:05,129 You've got it tuned to the Texas Standard. 20 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:06,330 I'm Laura Rice. 21 00:01:06,660 --> 00:01:11,789 When Texas Standard put together its list for our movie Madness Bracket to determine 22 00:01:11,789 --> 00:01:14,880 the best Texas film, we had a few rules. 23 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:18,390 It had to be filmed at least in part in Texas and set. 24 00:01:18,390 --> 00:01:20,160 Here we put a limit of. 25 00:01:20,230 --> 00:01:23,650 Two on how many movies from each director could be on the list. 26 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:28,990 But we didn't limit writers, which is how three stories originally written 27 00:01:28,990 --> 00:01:31,180 by Larry McMurtry made the list. 28 00:01:31,390 --> 00:01:35,140 Hud, the last picture Show and terms of endearment. 29 00:01:35,500 --> 00:01:38,680 Lonesome Dove would surely have made the list to, but we limited 30 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:40,810 ourselves to theatrical films. 31 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:45,430 McMurtry captured something so special about Texas in some very. 32 00:01:45,630 --> 00:01:46,920 Different stories. 33 00:01:47,310 --> 00:01:52,199 David Streitfeld explores McMurtry's writing his personal odyssey and his 34 00:01:52,199 --> 00:01:55,259 legacy in a new book, Western Star. 35 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:57,479 David, welcome to the Texas Standard. 36 00:01:58,229 --> 00:01:58,289 David Streitfeld: Hi. 37 00:01:58,380 --> 00:01:59,160 Thanks for having me. 38 00:01:59,399 --> 00:02:02,190 Laura Rice: Well, I told you I was gonna ask about, you know, 39 00:02:02,190 --> 00:02:04,259 why another Larry McMurtry book? 40 00:02:04,259 --> 00:02:06,509 'cause Larry of course wrote so much about. 41 00:02:06,885 --> 00:02:07,605 Himself. 42 00:02:07,605 --> 00:02:11,985 He wrote so much, but you had a, a, a distinct relationship with him 43 00:02:11,985 --> 00:02:13,485 and a, and a perspective on him. 44 00:02:14,295 --> 00:02:14,565 David Streitfeld: Yeah. 45 00:02:14,565 --> 00:02:18,765 I was destined, I think, to write this book, which might be my excuse 46 00:02:18,765 --> 00:02:22,305 for having it taken 20, 30 years. 47 00:02:22,365 --> 00:02:29,055 I met Larry in the 1990s when I was a journalist in Washington, DC. 48 00:02:29,870 --> 00:02:34,850 He was a part-time bookseller in Washington DC when he wasn't in Texas 49 00:02:35,330 --> 00:02:37,340 and I wanted to write about him. 50 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:41,390 He resisted, but I went to his store in Texas. 51 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:45,770 Um, then had about 400,000 books picked through them. 52 00:02:45,830 --> 00:02:47,240 Wrote an article about it. 53 00:02:47,510 --> 00:02:51,080 He responded to that, and out of that we became friends. 54 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:56,670 Laura Rice: Well, we talked about how this interview could go so many different ways. 55 00:02:56,670 --> 00:03:01,290 We could talk about Texas and his personal odyssey, or we could just 56 00:03:01,290 --> 00:03:05,670 talk about lonesome Dove, which is sort of where we settled because, you 57 00:03:05,670 --> 00:03:09,090 know, if there's, if there's one piece of work that I think he's, he's, he's 58 00:03:09,090 --> 00:03:11,130 still most known for, it would be. 59 00:03:11,325 --> 00:03:11,865 That one. 60 00:03:11,865 --> 00:03:12,795 You think that's true? 61 00:03:13,905 --> 00:03:19,005 David Streitfeld: I think that's true, and somehow for a variety of reasons. 62 00:03:19,005 --> 00:03:24,315 Lonesome Dove has in the past couple of years, especially the last year, 63 00:03:24,645 --> 00:03:27,285 started selling at an incredible rate. 64 00:03:27,375 --> 00:03:32,235 It sells about a hundred thousand copies a year, which is just. 65 00:03:33,045 --> 00:03:33,885 Enormous. 66 00:03:33,885 --> 00:03:38,835 So I figure only time will tell if Lonesome Dove is a great American 67 00:03:38,835 --> 00:03:42,825 novel, but it's certainly the great Texas novel and it seems like a 68 00:03:42,825 --> 00:03:48,075 lot of people in Texas and outside of Texas wanna read about Texas. 69 00:03:48,765 --> 00:03:52,035 Laura Rice: What do you attribute to the fact that it's gained this 70 00:03:52,035 --> 00:03:56,565 renewed attention of, of course we lost Larry not too long ago, 71 00:03:56,565 --> 00:03:57,915 that that could be part of it. 72 00:03:57,915 --> 00:03:59,020 People saying, what did I miss? 73 00:04:00,305 --> 00:04:01,895 David Streitfeld: I, I think that's part of it. 74 00:04:01,895 --> 00:04:04,055 I think, I think there's a couple of reasons. 75 00:04:04,175 --> 00:04:10,235 The novel it, it's about if you're one of the few who hasn't read it or seen it or 76 00:04:10,235 --> 00:04:15,185 had any experience with the miniseries, it's about a cattle drive in the late 77 00:04:15,185 --> 00:04:25,985 19th century from the Rio to the up to Montana, and it evokes Texas history. 78 00:04:27,445 --> 00:04:29,935 It says something about the present as well. 79 00:04:29,935 --> 00:04:30,969 It seems it. 80 00:04:30,985 --> 00:04:36,415 It talks about things that people at the moment have questions about that 81 00:04:36,415 --> 00:04:41,455 they feel aren't being answered in their lives, like male friendship. 82 00:04:41,455 --> 00:04:46,645 I mean, you see that discussed all the time in newspapers, but it's rare to see 83 00:04:46,705 --> 00:04:49,284 that much of it in a novel, and I think. 84 00:04:49,590 --> 00:04:52,500 That's one element at least that people respond to. 85 00:04:53,010 --> 00:04:59,969 Another would be the book is about dreams, about the dreams that you have 86 00:04:59,969 --> 00:05:05,760 that everyone has, and how you can end up middle aged or older and realize 87 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:08,070 your dreams haven't quite come true. 88 00:05:08,070 --> 00:05:11,220 And maybe you fought on the wrong side all your life. 89 00:05:12,330 --> 00:05:16,230 Laura Rice: Well, and that last point, I was gonna say, the intersection with Texas 90 00:05:16,230 --> 00:05:18,270 history, because Texas history is not. 91 00:05:18,985 --> 00:05:23,605 Uncomplicated and the Texas Rangers particularly are not, uh, 92 00:05:23,605 --> 00:05:27,745 are not uncomplicated, and that's what these two protagonists are. 93 00:05:27,805 --> 00:05:29,130 And, and he. 94 00:05:29,805 --> 00:05:35,025 Didn't shy away from that, especially if you, if you go into, to prequels and, and, 95 00:05:35,025 --> 00:05:36,765 and that sort of thing for lonesome Dove, 96 00:05:37,545 --> 00:05:37,905 David Streitfeld: right. 97 00:05:37,905 --> 00:05:42,765 Larry felt that the history of Texas and really the whole settling 98 00:05:42,765 --> 00:05:49,695 of the West was a very dark story full of, full of murder, full of 99 00:05:49,695 --> 00:05:51,615 cultures trying to kill each other. 100 00:05:52,025 --> 00:05:59,645 He also was proud of his ancestors, his relatives who had settled Texas and he 101 00:05:59,794 --> 00:06:07,385 thought they were upstanding figures that had much to, um, be admired. 102 00:06:07,984 --> 00:06:11,705 And so he was always wrestling with those two things. 103 00:06:11,705 --> 00:06:12,815 He liked the people. 104 00:06:13,660 --> 00:06:19,240 But didn't like the history and he was unsettled by the history, and he always 105 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:25,960 felt that Lonesome Dove was a story about the darkness, but somehow people 106 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:31,750 responded differently when they read it and they found in it a story that 107 00:06:31,750 --> 00:06:33,520 they thought was almost inspirational. 108 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:34,240 Laura Rice: Hmm. 109 00:06:35,265 --> 00:06:40,275 I mean, it, it makes me think too of, uh, of the, of the film series. 110 00:06:40,275 --> 00:06:44,445 Uh, I would encourage those who, who haven't read that, the book to go 111 00:06:44,445 --> 00:06:47,235 back and, uh, and, and dig into that. 112 00:06:47,265 --> 00:06:49,875 'cause it, of course, you know, I always say reading the book 113 00:06:49,875 --> 00:06:51,945 is, is a much richer experience. 114 00:06:51,945 --> 00:06:52,215 Right. 115 00:06:52,215 --> 00:06:58,365 But the, um, the film series, I understand he, he wasn't a fan of even at the time. 116 00:06:58,455 --> 00:07:00,104 Um, is, is that true? 117 00:07:00,929 --> 00:07:04,979 David Streitfeld: He maintains that he never actually saw lonesome dove 118 00:07:05,039 --> 00:07:07,349 the miniseries all the way through. 119 00:07:07,409 --> 00:07:09,960 And that may well be true. 120 00:07:09,989 --> 00:07:15,090 Uh, the miniseries has many, many devoted admirers and 121 00:07:15,090 --> 00:07:17,340 certainly the acting is great. 122 00:07:18,330 --> 00:07:21,539 Personally, I find it reminds me a bit too much of. 123 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:28,330 The excesses of the 1980s, and it doesn't really seem to have that 124 00:07:28,330 --> 00:07:33,099 classic look that suggests it will be watched 20 years from now. 125 00:07:33,460 --> 00:07:34,570 But I could be wrong. 126 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:35,620 Laura Rice: Hmm. 127 00:07:36,190 --> 00:07:41,130 If I have to pick a. Number two for me, it's the last picture show. 128 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:44,940 And that it seems like that was Larry writing about his 129 00:07:44,940 --> 00:07:47,610 own small town experience. 130 00:07:47,700 --> 00:07:54,450 Um, but then what's interesting about that series is the, the protagonist, 131 00:07:54,450 --> 00:07:59,100 Sonny, is, is not the protagonist is as far as the whole series moves forward. 132 00:07:59,100 --> 00:08:01,200 It's this other character, Dwayne. 133 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:01,440 Right? 134 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:02,970 I mean, could you talk a little about that? 135 00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:04,150 David Streitfeld: Right. 136 00:08:04,150 --> 00:08:07,990 The last picture show is with Lonesome Dove. 137 00:08:07,990 --> 00:08:12,580 Larry's other key book and they're really related. 138 00:08:12,910 --> 00:08:18,700 The lonesome dove is about the settling of the west and the great dreams and 139 00:08:18,730 --> 00:08:23,350 heroic exploits and uh, murderous times. 140 00:08:23,410 --> 00:08:29,050 And the last picture show takes place a generation or two later when the 141 00:08:29,050 --> 00:08:31,840 west has been settled and people are. 142 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:35,110 Bored out of their minds and would like to escape. 143 00:08:35,110 --> 00:08:39,490 Texas would like to escape these small towns and find they can't. 144 00:08:39,700 --> 00:08:44,860 So it's about kind of the diminishing of dreams over time. 145 00:08:45,220 --> 00:08:51,340 And then as Larry Wood, he loved to follow characters through novel after novel. 146 00:08:51,725 --> 00:08:59,375 And Dwayne is a sympathetic figure, but also to a large extent, a tragic one. 147 00:08:59,405 --> 00:09:04,625 He doesn't know what to do with his life and how to make his life better, how to 148 00:09:04,625 --> 00:09:08,075 live heroiCally, however that may be. 149 00:09:10,145 --> 00:09:13,535 Laura Rice: One of your questions when we were setting this story up is, 150 00:09:14,165 --> 00:09:16,745 you know, Larry's personal odyssey. 151 00:09:17,045 --> 00:09:19,415 How would you summarize that? 152 00:09:19,415 --> 00:09:21,275 I mean, what was that? 153 00:09:21,990 --> 00:09:27,690 Journey like for him in, uh, in his career and, and, and how he 154 00:09:27,690 --> 00:09:29,490 saw what he wanted to accomplish. 155 00:09:30,615 --> 00:09:33,165 David Streitfeld: Larry proceeded by instinct. 156 00:09:33,165 --> 00:09:34,875 He didn't have a career plan. 157 00:09:34,935 --> 00:09:37,995 He didn't have a plan for any of the books he wrote. 158 00:09:37,995 --> 00:09:42,735 He sat down and started typing and let the story go wherever 159 00:09:42,735 --> 00:09:45,660 it was so in that he's not. 160 00:09:46,355 --> 00:09:52,355 Really a typical artist where he is like the great artist is his 161 00:09:52,355 --> 00:09:54,215 ambivalence about his subject. 162 00:09:54,875 --> 00:09:57,275 He loved Texas and he hated it. 163 00:09:57,845 --> 00:10:04,235 He would miss Texas incredibly, the the big open skies, the the freedom that he 164 00:10:04,235 --> 00:10:06,875 felt there when he was somewhere else. 165 00:10:07,145 --> 00:10:09,305 But then he would get to Texas and he'd be like. 166 00:10:09,490 --> 00:10:10,660 I can't stand it here. 167 00:10:10,900 --> 00:10:12,160 There's nothing to eat. 168 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:16,420 He was particularly concerned about the bad food, and then he would feel that 169 00:10:16,420 --> 00:10:21,670 he'd have to leave and he would leave, and he was impressed by the people. 170 00:10:21,730 --> 00:10:27,070 And yet he also found the people as he portrayed them in last picture 171 00:10:27,070 --> 00:10:33,910 show narrow-minded and stuck in their own concerns and not, uh, reaching 172 00:10:33,910 --> 00:10:36,595 for a more impressive existence. 173 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:43,010 So he was ambivalent and the ambivalence came out on the page and I think anybody 174 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:51,350 who lives in Texas and is ambivalent themselves about the state will find in 175 00:10:51,350 --> 00:10:53,055 Larry and Echo that they'll appreciate. 176 00:10:54,244 --> 00:10:57,604 Laura Rice: Well, Larry, I understand spent more and more time 177 00:10:57,694 --> 00:10:59,944 outside of Texas as he grew older. 178 00:10:59,944 --> 00:11:03,515 He, he died in Tucson, Arizona. 179 00:11:03,875 --> 00:11:07,594 Did he still identify very strongly as a Texan? 180 00:11:08,459 --> 00:11:13,170 David Streitfeld: He identified so strongly as a Texan that he told his 181 00:11:13,530 --> 00:11:18,930 writing partner Diana Osana, to tell the newspapers when he died, that 182 00:11:18,930 --> 00:11:24,990 he had died in Texas, even though he had really died in Tucson, Arizona. 183 00:11:25,620 --> 00:11:28,740 So he wanted to be portrayed. 184 00:11:29,699 --> 00:11:35,400 In the media, in the popular imagination as so Texan that he had died there. 185 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:41,130 Laura Rice: I'm thinking now about Gus's last wish to, to drag his sign 186 00:11:41,130 --> 00:11:43,589 back to, to lonesome dove right. 187 00:11:43,589 --> 00:11:44,969 To to be buried there. 188 00:11:44,969 --> 00:11:47,370 Is there do, do you see some similarity in that? 189 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:48,689 David Streitfeld: Exactly. 190 00:11:48,750 --> 00:11:55,650 It was a very unusual case of the novel anticipating predicting 191 00:11:55,740 --> 00:11:57,449 the reality that came about. 192 00:11:57,975 --> 00:11:58,365 Whatever. 193 00:11:58,365 --> 00:11:59,385 40 years later, 194 00:12:00,225 --> 00:12:04,275 Laura Rice: David Refield explores McMurtry's writing his personal 195 00:12:04,275 --> 00:12:09,435 odyssey and his legacy in the book Western Star, which is out now. 196 00:12:10,035 --> 00:12:11,235 David, thank you so much. 197 00:12:11,745 --> 00:12:12,765 David Streitfeld: Thank you for having me. 198 00:12:13,875 --> 00:12:15,345 Laura Rice: Well, we could keep going if we wanted to. 199 00:12:15,345 --> 00:12:18,920 I sort of felt like that was a, that was a beautiful way to end it, but then, 200 00:12:19,330 --> 00:12:19,680 David Streitfeld: right. 201 00:12:19,700 --> 00:12:20,080 Laura Rice: But then 202 00:12:20,895 --> 00:12:21,525 David Streitfeld: it's up to you. 203 00:12:21,525 --> 00:12:26,655 I can certainly answer more questions, but, uh, I leave it to you, you know, 204 00:12:26,655 --> 00:12:30,525 like every author, I can talk about my book for the next six hours, but, 205 00:12:30,675 --> 00:12:35,775 uh, I'm not sure the world needs to hear five hours and 45 minutes of it. 206 00:12:36,345 --> 00:12:37,185 Laura Rice: Oh, let me ask you this. 207 00:12:37,185 --> 00:12:39,765 I guess, what do, what do you hope that. 208 00:12:40,655 --> 00:12:46,445 Western Star adds to our understanding of Larry McMurtry. 209 00:12:47,020 --> 00:12:47,240 David Streitfeld: You. 210 00:12:47,315 --> 00:12:50,135 You know, I mean that's what something I, I could talk about. 211 00:12:50,225 --> 00:12:56,255 I mean, Larry believed very firmly in books, the physical 212 00:12:56,435 --> 00:12:58,415 container that is the books. 213 00:12:58,465 --> 00:13:05,275 He started a bookstore on the edge of the Texas plains and put 500,000 books 214 00:13:05,275 --> 00:13:12,295 in it and expected people to come and buy them, which in retrospect is a 215 00:13:12,295 --> 00:13:17,335 Daffy idea when, uh, this thing Called the internet is blossoming everywhere. 216 00:13:17,335 --> 00:13:17,345 Mm-hmm. 217 00:13:17,940 --> 00:13:26,485 Um, but he was a, a man of the book and abided by them and celebrated them. 218 00:13:27,255 --> 00:13:32,295 Felt that that was his legacy, not the movies, that it was the books. 219 00:13:32,895 --> 00:13:41,324 And I would hope that my book adds a little understanding and a little 220 00:13:41,415 --> 00:13:43,305 entertainment, a little enjoyment. 221 00:13:43,425 --> 00:13:48,074 It's a fun story of meeting precedents and. 222 00:13:48,990 --> 00:13:54,510 You know, being on, on top of Hollywood and in general having a good time. 223 00:13:54,990 --> 00:14:00,510 And I tried to convey some of Larry's exuberance in telling the story. 224 00:14:00,810 --> 00:14:07,050 So I hope people understand Larry by reading my book, and I hope they 225 00:14:07,410 --> 00:14:09,120 enjoy reading the book just as a book. 226 00:14:10,229 --> 00:14:10,349 Laura Rice: Mm-hmm. 227 00:14:10,954 --> 00:14:11,375 Mm-hmm. 228 00:14:12,390 --> 00:14:13,410 Well, thank you so much. 229 00:14:13,410 --> 00:14:16,439 I'm so excited to, my kids aren't big enough for, for all these 230 00:14:16,439 --> 00:14:19,680 stories yet, but it's, it's gonna be fun to, to read them to them. 231 00:14:19,770 --> 00:14:23,939 Um, my little guy's middle name is Augustus for, uh, 232 00:14:24,089 --> 00:14:24,120 oh 233 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:24,180 David Streitfeld: my 234 00:14:24,180 --> 00:14:24,270 Laura Rice: God. 235 00:14:24,270 --> 00:14:24,839 Yes. 236 00:14:24,995 --> 00:14:25,214 Is 237 00:14:25,214 --> 00:14:25,615 David Streitfeld: that because of 238 00:14:25,615 --> 00:14:25,735 Laura Rice: this? 239 00:14:25,875 --> 00:14:26,094 Yes. 240 00:14:26,094 --> 00:14:30,060 It, it is, it's because of Lonesome Do, which I real, which I recognize. 241 00:14:30,060 --> 00:14:30,120 David Streitfeld: Wow. 242 00:14:30,180 --> 00:14:31,319 You should have said that. 243 00:14:32,805 --> 00:14:34,110 That was your intro. 244 00:14:34,349 --> 00:14:35,250 Boy, you know. 245 00:14:35,745 --> 00:14:41,955 You know, Larry, even in his more trying times, like the end of his life when 246 00:14:41,955 --> 00:14:45,345 he was sick, kept his sense of humor. 247 00:14:45,735 --> 00:14:51,945 And Gus has a strongly developed sense of humor, an amused 248 00:14:51,945 --> 00:14:54,465 way of looking at the world. 249 00:14:54,915 --> 00:14:59,895 And Gus probably gets less done than his buddy Call. 250 00:15:00,765 --> 00:15:06,015 But I'd, I'd rather be Gus than Captain Call, and I'd rather my 251 00:15:06,285 --> 00:15:08,895 child be Gus than Captain Call. 252 00:15:08,900 --> 00:15:09,030 Mm-hmm. 253 00:15:09,375 --> 00:15:13,665 And I'd rather have a party with, uh, all the Gus's than Captain Call. 254 00:15:13,665 --> 00:15:13,875 Laura Rice: Absolute. 255 00:15:14,025 --> 00:15:17,505 David Streitfeld: So, uh, um, I think you did well and, uh. 256 00:15:18,194 --> 00:15:19,515 Choosing the name Gus. 257 00:15:19,574 --> 00:15:19,635 Yeah. 258 00:15:20,595 --> 00:15:23,175 Laura Rice: So you think, you think he was more of an an 259 00:15:23,175 --> 00:15:25,365 Augustus or more of a Of a Call? 260 00:15:26,324 --> 00:15:30,105 David Streitfeld: He was always torn as usual. 261 00:15:30,375 --> 00:15:36,135 Larry's life is about ambivalence, but unfortunately he thought 262 00:15:36,615 --> 00:15:39,074 he was much more of a Call. 263 00:15:39,074 --> 00:15:45,675 Mm. A captain Call then an Augustus, meaning he, I think he even said 264 00:15:45,675 --> 00:15:47,800 at one point that he was about. 265 00:15:49,050 --> 00:15:56,520 80% captain Call and 20% generously Augustus. 266 00:15:56,730 --> 00:16:05,070 So Larry was always getting up at 5:00 AM and setting the work, and he would leave 267 00:16:05,070 --> 00:16:11,190 the party, whatever party it was that he was invited to early or he wouldn't 268 00:16:11,190 --> 00:16:16,140 go to the party at all so he could get up the next morning and go back to work. 269 00:16:16,685 --> 00:16:19,954 He regretted that a little bit. 270 00:16:20,435 --> 00:16:25,985 Um, he, he never really changed from that, but it's probably impossible 271 00:16:25,985 --> 00:16:31,925 to change your, your personality that much to go from the hard 272 00:16:31,925 --> 00:16:34,834 worker to the life of the party. 273 00:16:35,525 --> 00:16:37,324 I think Larry wished that he. 274 00:16:37,995 --> 00:16:39,975 Enjoyed things a bit more. 275 00:16:40,965 --> 00:16:42,285 Laura Rice: You know, I relate to that though. 276 00:16:42,285 --> 00:16:46,425 I think I, I am, I'm probably a Call to, but I think it says something about 277 00:16:46,425 --> 00:16:50,835 Larry that he could write Gus so fully. 278 00:16:50,835 --> 00:16:55,155 I think there must have been a lot more Gus than him than, than he always let out. 279 00:16:55,155 --> 00:16:55,275 Well, 280 00:16:56,329 --> 00:16:59,295 David Streitfeld: maybe he just couldn't let it out, or was afraid to. 281 00:16:59,295 --> 00:16:59,385 Mm-hmm. 282 00:16:59,625 --> 00:17:04,875 Because really if, if you look back through his books, they all, um. 283 00:17:06,270 --> 00:17:07,980 Have this kind of split. 284 00:17:07,980 --> 00:17:12,179 I mean, leaving Cheyenne, which is an early novel that people love, 285 00:17:12,510 --> 00:17:16,409 is about two men, both of whom are in love with the same woman. 286 00:17:16,859 --> 00:17:18,510 And it's the same dynamic. 287 00:17:18,510 --> 00:17:22,710 One is the hard worker, the other is the party guy. 288 00:17:23,310 --> 00:17:29,700 And the hard worker wishes he were a little looser and, uh, more, more of 289 00:17:29,700 --> 00:17:35,250 a fun guy and a party guy is really happy just being the way he is. 290 00:17:35,830 --> 00:17:40,180 So it was something he battled against forever because he was the son of a Texas 291 00:17:40,180 --> 00:17:47,590 rancher and his father got up every day at four at the latest every morning. 292 00:17:48,159 --> 00:17:50,800 And he made Larry get up that early too. 293 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:56,350 And once you start getting up that early and setting the work as a child, 294 00:17:57,040 --> 00:17:58,480 you do it for the rest of your life. 295 00:18:00,405 --> 00:18:02,115 Laura Rice: Yeah, this is all going in the extras. 296 00:18:02,115 --> 00:18:04,395 Uh, this has been really delightful, David. 297 00:18:04,395 --> 00:18:05,835 Thank you so much for your time. 298 00:18:05,835 --> 00:18:06,195 David Streitfeld: All right. 299 00:18:06,645 --> 00:18:09,405 Well it's, I've given you hard work here to put this all together, 300 00:18:09,405 --> 00:18:10,965 but uh, hopefully it'll be great. 301 00:18:11,055 --> 00:18:11,775 Laura Rice: I think it will be. 302 00:18:11,775 --> 00:18:12,135 Thank you.