Miles Bloxson: I am Miles Bloxson
Elizabeth McQueen: And I'm Elizabeth McQueen.
And this is Pause Play the podcast about live music, why
it matters and what comes next.
Miles Bloxson: This season we've been looking at the future of music in Austin.
We've explored the future of streaming and AI and music.
We even talked about what South by Southwest might look like moving forward.
Elizabeth McQueen: And in this episode we are gonna look at the.
Future of the Live Music Fund
Miles Bloxson: The Live Music Fund is something that we
have in Austin that is unique.
It's a way for musicians, independent promoters and venues who work
in commercial music to access grants through the city of Austin.
Elizabeth McQueen: It's funded by the hotel occupancy tax, and
if you wanna know more about.
The specifics of how that funding works.
You can listen to our last episode where we tell the story of how the
framework of the first version of the live music fund came together.
And please don't make us explain funding mechanisms again.
Miles Bloxson: And this episode we're going to look at what the third
version of the fund will look like.
Elizabeth McQueen: Yeah, the first round of funding went out in 2023.
The second in 2024 and soon applications will be open for the third round.
Miles Bloxson: Each year the fund has worked a little differently and this year
the city is doing yet another iteration.
Elizabeth McQueen: And Miles, I have been doing a lot of research on this and I have
to tell you, it's a lot to keep track of.
So I asked Erica to help us work through it all.
Erica Shamaly: Erica Shamaly and the Division Manager for Music
and Entertainment within the Austin Arts Culture, Music and
Entertainment, newly-formed department
Elizabeth McQueen: Now Miles, we've talked to Erica before on this podcast, and she
used to introduce herself differently.
Miles Bloxson: Yeah, I remember she said she worked for the music and
Entertainment Division of the City of Austin's Economic Development Department.
Right.
Yeah.
But now she works for a different division, Austin
Arts, Culture and Entertainment.
Elizabeth McQueen: Yeah.
Or ACME for short.
It's a new department that brings together all the arts divisions
at the city under one roof.
And Erica told me about why ACME was formed.
Erica Shamaly: Austin's always been very dedicated to our
creative community to music.
To entertainment, film, and to the arts and more just because of that.
You kind of see it all over several departments, you know, a focus there.
So you, you saw it in Parks and Recreation, the development services
department, uh, and economic development department and the
libraries, you name it, it's all over.
So community has been saying for years, we would love to see all of that
under one roof so that we can better collaborate and that there's just.
You know, more fluid processes between everybody.
And so finally, after a long time, it took a while in the vision of our leadership
at the City of Austin to say, you know, that's a great idea and it's time.
It is finally time.
And so we have this newly formed department with an umbrella for.
All of those elements of arts, music, entertainment, film, anything,
cultural centers, museums all under one umbrella so that we can better
work together, collaborate, and most importantly, serve our community
with the things they love the most.
Elizabeth McQueen: So more streamlined services, more collaboration,
everybody kind of talking to each other rather than being in different
departments all over the city.
Exactly.
Erica Shamaly: Exactly.
So now people will know, who do I go to?
You go to one place.
Uh, it used to be that you would get, you know, kind of like,
okay, oh, actually that's not us.
You're gonna have to go into this one division of this other department.
So now we finally have that all under one.
Place one intake, you know, to come and talk to us about what may be needed.
And it also does give us the opportunity to create new processes,
new ways of working together, because that are dependent, not on several
departments, but dependent on just us.
Elizabeth McQueen: And you guys are gonna figuring out how it all work.
Right?
Mm-hmm.
And we are here to talk about the Live Music Fund So has that
delayed the release of the live music fund application process?
'cause I know last year it started in May and it was done in June.
So is that part of the reason why applications haven't been released yet?
Correct.
Erica Shamaly: We are launching everything all at once.
The formation of Acme happened in February, 2025, so we're
like month four and a half, you know, almost five months in.
And at the same time, it was really important for our new director,
director, Angela Meads, to get to know the community and listen to everybody.
Listen to the folks who most have been requesting this and why.
And so it's kind of hard just to kind of.
Keep on going As, as everything was when it's not at all that anymore.
Uh, there was a lot of listening and, uh, learning that had
to happen across the board.
Elizabeth McQueen: And do you know when live music fund applications will go live?
Erica Shamaly: Yeah.
So we're working very hard right now.
We're all coordinating, finishing up some key things so that we can
start, you know, building it all out.
So we anticipate October, you're gonna see kind of a, uh, you know.
One application, not just for the live music fund, for the Creative
Space Assistance Program, for the Elevate Program, the Nexus program,
and the Heritage Preservation grant.
Elizabeth McQueen: Whoa.
So is it gonna be like a common application?
Like there will
Erica Shamaly: be a first step that will be okay.
And then based on those initial, you know, answers that that will then kind of,
you know, route yet to the right place.
Miles Bloxson: So like a lot of the applications will go live at
the same time, but the first step of the application process will be
filling out this common intake form.
Elizabeth McQueen: Yeah.
And based on that intake form, you'll be assigned one or more
eligibility verification forms, and once you get verified, then
you'll get access to an application.
Miles Bloxson: Well, that's different from how things were before.
What about the grant amounts?
That's changing too, right?
Elizabeth McQueen: Yeah, and actually the amount of the live music fund
grants is something that's changed with every new application cycle.
Miles Bloxson: Oh yeah.
And during the first year, there were like five and $10,000 grants, right?
Elizabeth McQueen: Yeah.
They had $3.5 million in the fund, and only musicians and
independent promoters could apply.
No venues were eligible.
Miles Bloxson: So how many people applied that first year?
Elizabeth McQueen: According to the City of Austin's website, 660 people applied.
Miles Bloxson: And how many people actually got grants?
Elizabeth McQueen: 368.
Miles Bloxson: Hmm.
But in round two, the
grants were bigger, right?
Elizabeth McQueen: Yeah.
In round two, the grants for artists and independent promoters went from
five and 10,000 to 15 and 30,000.
Miles Bloxson: Whoa.
That's a big jump.
Did they still have $3.5 million to give out?
Elizabeth McQueen: Yeah, they also added another million dollars to the
fund and made it available to venues.
Venues could apply for 30 or $60,000 grants, depending
on their operating budgets,
Miles Bloxson: So venues could finally access the Live Music Fund But it seems
like fewer musicians got grants last year.
Yeah.
Elizabeth McQueen: In 2024, the live music fund had over a thousand
applications, but only 137 applicants got grants and 17 of those were venues.
Miles Bloxson: So going from over 368 recipients to 137, that's a huge drop.
And really if you take out the venues, only 120 musicians and independent
promoters actually got grants.
I remember people being pretty upset when the 2024 funding announcements came out.
It wasn't good.
Elizabeth McQueen: Oh yeah.
People were.
Mad.
Andrew Weber talked to Tameca Jones for a story he did for KUT and
she captured this feeling that you and I saw a lot on social media.
Tameca Jones: I, I just knew that I was in there.
I just knew it, it just, it, it devastated me honestly.
I, it devastated me.
You know?
I was like going a publicist.
I was gonna get some new photos.
I was going to, um, make some more music and, and pay the people who helped me
make music a, a, a fair, a fair rate.
When, when I did my taxes, I met poverty line.
Elizabeth McQueen: I mean, a lot of musicians were frustrated in
the same way that Tameca described.
Miles Bloxson: Why did they change the grant amounts to
be so much larger in 2024?
Elizabeth McQueen: Well, I asked Erica
what led to those larger grants in 2024,
Erica Shamaly: So this was an ongoing discussion with our
music commission to discuss.
How did it go?
Was that effective?
And what can we do going forward to be impactful?
Because you must remember when the Live music fund was first formed in 2019,
the goal was to be a fund that would transform the music industry in Austin.
Not just be a grant program, but be a program that truly.
Helps to fill the gaps in Austin when it comes to all the many
elements that need to happen for a successful music ecosystem.
And so what we learned was is that with the smaller grants,
it's a lot more administration.
Miles Bloxson: So what does that mean?
Administration?
Elizabeth McQueen: Okay, so the city of Austin has an agreement
with the Long Center to administer all ACME funding programs.
So the city provides the program guidelines and the long center
then processes the grants according to the city's guidelines.
Miles Bloxson: Why do they do it that way?
Elizabeth McQueen: Well, I asked Erica about that.
Erica Shamaly: We have a third party administrator, and the reason why we did
that back in 2023, and this wasn't just about the economic development department
or any of the divisions, it was about.
The purchasing department within the City of Austin and being
able to handle that many grant agreements that are handled frankly
differently than say, a procurement.
Um, the city is, has a procurement process with lots of rules and
policies in place, and so some of the feedback we had gotten from.
Before the, even the live music fund was implemented was it takes too long.
It takes so long to get a check from the city and it, it does
because it's a, let's say, long process that is there on purpose.
It's about taxpayer money.
It needs to have all of these things in place.
And so you're kind of trying to fit a grant program into a procurement
process, and the two quite aren't the same, especially when it comes
to the mission and the reason for the funds and the intent.
You know, procurements are about.
You know, getting several bids and finding the best cost, and there's a lot of
other elements, but grants are different.
There's a whole suite of reasons why you score a certain way, and so
by being able to find more capacity with a third party was crucial.
And this was a big, huge push from communities to have a third party.
And even mentioning the Long Center before this was even decided.
So we did go through a procurement process in order to find the right third party
and the long center came up on top.
You know, in terms of all of the capacity and things that were needed to kind
of like almost mirror what a city can provide in terms of enough accounting
staff, enough staff, and, uh, oversight, uh, that the city would deem acceptable
so that we could do that type of monitoring that is required of such a.
You know, a large contract, and we do this with several
third parties across the city.
There's just not enough city staff to do it all.
And so if we wanna get this money out there efficiently and within a
reasonable time period, you know, once you know the applications launch
and you know, all of those processes we're doing a lot better than it used
to be when it was all done in house.
Elizabeth McQueen: So the city pays the Long Center like a very specific hourly
rate to perform tasks like reviewing, eligibility or making payments.
And fewer grant recipients means fewer administrative costs.
Plus, Erica told me that with as many recipients as they had in 2023, it was
hard to give people more big picture help.
Erica Shamaly: It didn't give us enough time to do the work of
that transformational part, which is, you know, that professional
development, the assistance, um, it's not just about getting money
out there and just go for it.
It's truly about how do you spend the money and what is the most effective
ways to invest this money in your career.
Miles Bloxson: So, lemme make sure I understand this correctly, Elizabeth.
So bigger grant amounts meant fewer people receiving grants, which meant.
That the city was spending less on administration costs and also means that
the city staff was able to spend more time helping individual grantees and that's
why they increased those grant amounts.
Elizabeth McQueen: That's part of the reason
Erica told me that the city also upped those grant awards to make sure that
the grantees had access to more money to do the things they needed to do.
It
Erica Shamaly: It's not just about live shows, it's about recording, it's about
producing, it's about all the marketing, social media, and then the content
that goes along with making music.
It's about paying your musicians.
It's a long process that can be extremely expensive.
And so when you're having these smaller, you know, investments, you
can just do one little part of it.
Miles Bloxson: Didn't people know these bigger grants were coming
and that it would mean fewer people actually would get them?
Elizabeth McQueen: Well, Miles, you know how much I love to
watch music commission meetings?
Miles Bloxson: Oh, yes.
I know Elizabeth McQueen
Elizabeth McQueen: And I watched a lot, and the city was very above
board about this funding increase.
They announced it as early as February, 2024 at a music commission meeting.
But you know, I personally love watching music commission
meetings, but most people don't.
So I'm not sure if everyone knew that a lot fewer people would be getting
grants in 2024 than did in 2023.
Miles Bloxson: Yeah.
Music commission meetings are an acquired taste, shall I say.
Elizabeth McQueen: Yes.
They're my taste.
Miles Bloxson: So the grant amounts last year were much bigger now we
know why, but were there any other changes that happened last year?
Elizabeth McQueen: Yeah, last year the city also changed how artists
could spend the award money in 2023.
It was based on future projects.
Erica Shamaly: And that was based on how the other grants had
always been and what we learned.
That doesn't work for the music industry because things change all the time.
And so they can use the funds on any eligible expense that's very,
you know, specifically outlined in the guidelines, but at their
discretion of what they wanna do.
And then as long as they promote it and market it to visitors.
Potential convention delegates and audiences, local audiences alike, which
that's what we do in the industry.
In music, we do that anyway, it's just built in.
And so as long as everything you're doing and it can even be recording a record
and you're in the studio and you're like, I'm, you know, recording my next record.
I mean, how many, you know, artists have you seen do that
to promote what they're doing?
Well, that promotes Austin that promotes the live music fund, and
so we have requirements around that.
And so we wanted to make it as flexible as possible so that.
It.
We get back to the point of the live music fund originally, which is
this transformative fund, you know, for the industry here in Austin.
Miles Bloxson: So it used to be that you got a grant for a specific project,
and now the way people can spend this money is way more open-ended.
Yeah.
Hmm.
And they're changing the grant amounts again in 2025, right?
Elizabeth McQueen: Yeah.
Here's Erica.
Erica Shamaly: So for 2025, we're just gonna try to find a middle ground.
So instead of 30, it'll be 20.
And then we will also do a $5,000 grant.
Elizabeth McQueen: And is there a delineation in 2025
between the $5,000 grants?
Those are for emerging artists, and then 20 is for more established?
Is that how it goes?
Or it's
Erica Shamaly: really just a difference of what's needed.
Okay.
And you know, it's hard to dictate who's an emerging artist and what that, how
to define that, because you could be a musician and go to a different instrument
or a different genre, you know, have.
Way through your career and could be, feel like you're an
emerging artist all over again.
And so we didn't wanna be the definers of what's emerging, what isn't.
It's really about what's needed.
And also having a more simple application for those $5,000 grants.
So we worked with, very closely with the music commission and kind of also
adjusted our scoring around, you know, music industry accomplishments that was,
you know, they really wanted to see that.
Um.
And so what we'll do is for those $20,000 grants, it will have that
music industry accomplishments scoring category along with others, you know.
But for the 5,000, that very top scoring for music industry
accomplishments won't happen.
It'll just be scoring for the rest of it.
Miles Bloxson: So this year, musicians and independent promoters will be able to
apply for $20,000 grants or $5,000 grants.
Elizabeth McQueen: And the $20,000 grants will cover a two year period.
So if you get a $20,000 grant this year, you can't apply next year.
But the $5,000 grants will be for one year.
Miles Bloxson: And what about the venues?
How much can they apply for?
Elizabeth McQueen: Well, venues with budgets of over $60,000 can
apply for $70,000 grants, and those grants are for a one year term.
And Miles, one thing we haven't had a chance to mention is that
the city has more money to work with this year and next year.
Miles Bloxson: Why is that?
Elizabeth McQueen: Well, like we said, because of Acme, the rollout
of the live music fund was delayed, and it was delayed past the end of
the city of Austin's fiscal year.
So the fiscal year for 2025 is gonna end on September 30th, but the live music
fund applications won't go live until.
October.
So in fiscal year 2025, the city had $4.8 million budgeted
for the live music Fund awards.
They've decided to take that money and divide it in half, and then they're
gonna put one half of that award money and add it to the award money for fiscal
year 2026, and they're gonna take the other half and they're gonna add that
to the award money for fiscal year 27.
So the live music fund is gonna be giving away around $7 million
total during this next round.
And the round after that.
Miles Bloxson: Oh, wow.
So these grant awards will be smaller this year than last, and the amount
of money to give away will be larger.
So there will definitely be more musicians and independent promoters
getting awards moving forward.
Right.
Elizabeth McQueen: Yeah.
At least for the next couple of years.
But you know, the demand for the live music fund has been really high.
Like I said, last year there were over a thousand applications and the total amount
that people applied for was $29 million.
So a lot of people want grants, but there's just not enough money
for everyone who applies to get.
But Erica did say that the city is looking at ways to grow the live
music fund in a more sustainable way.
Erica Shamaly: One thing I think that ACME is going to do is look at
ways we can raise more funds that aren't just focused on hot like
the Ho, you know, these taxes and.
So that's one of our next steps of our strategic process is establishing
those pro those ways that we can do that, which is possible.
You know, it's just like a friends of a park type of situation
that happens throughout cities.
In our city.
We don't have anything like that, but for Acme.
But we could.
And so next steps will be setting up the infrastructure for people to donate to
a cause so we can potentially raise more money for more grants for all of this.
And I think that's something Austin needs.
Uh, we haven't been the best when it comes to like traditional philanthropy.
We are a tech city innovation and we are earners, uh, but we're coming
to a place where it's impossible to earn enough money to do what it.
Takes and costs to survive as either a, a creative space, a venue, a theater,
or even as a musician to pay your rent.
And so we need the support of all of these wonderful companies that are here,
of our population, of our residents.
And so we're going to facilitate a process so that can happen, which is exciting.
Miles Bloxson: And she mentions scoring.
What's that all about?
Elizabeth McQueen: Well, coming up after the break, I'll tell you all about it.
Miles Bloxson: Welcome back to Pause.
Play the podcast about live music, why it matters, and what comes next.
In this episode, we're talking about the future of the live music
fund, and Elizabeth, you were going to tell me about scoring.
Elizabeth McQueen: Ah, yes.
Scoring.
So the City of Austin uses a scoring rubric for the Live Music Fund
You can see the 2024 scoring rubrics, along with all the
questions from the applications and the eligibility requirements
on the City of Austin's website.
Miles Bloxson: And what kinds of things did they score for in 2024?
Elizabeth McQueen: So in 2024, the scoring for musicians and independent
promoters looked like this.
You got up to 35 points if you could prove you had limited access to resources.
So things like whether applicants had access to healthcare, whether a language
other than English was spoken in the household, and what kind of access
applicants had to traditional banking.
Among other things, you could get up to 30 points for proving what
they called local economic impact.
So proving you were spending money on local musicians or venues, or.
Austin-based businesses, you got up to 20 points for planning and
outreach that included a tourism and marketing budget, as well as proving
how your projects amplified Austin's diverse arts and culture sector.
You could get up to 30 points for proving that you had made projects open and
accessible to the public, people with disabilities, and people who spoke a
language other than English, and you got 15 points if you had not received
funding during the 2023 Live Music Fund
Miles Bloxson: Could people see their scores last year?
Like if they applied and didn't get chosen, were they given their scores?
Elizabeth McQueen: Erica told me people weren't just given their
scores, but if they requested it, they could get the scores and have a city
staff member walk them through them.
Hmm.
Miles Bloxson: And Erica was saying that they're adding a scoring category
called music industry accomplishments.
Elizabeth McQueen: Yeah.
A lot of established musicians felt like the last round didn't take the
work that they'd been doing and the careers that they had built into account.
So in this new rubric for the $20,000 grants.
Music industry accomplishments account for up to 25 points.
These are things like awards, playing shows where 300 people or more attended
download numbers, touring and radio play.
Artist development will account for up to 25 points.
So this is like career training, participating in music programs,
volunteering at benefit concerts, things like that.
And applicants do get more points in this category if they have
limited access to resources.
Applicants can get up to 25 points for Austin music economy development.
So hiring and paying Austin musicians and creatives using Austin spaces and
collaborating with other local musicians.
And then applicants can get up to 25 points for cultural
tourism, marketing, and outreach.
So things like marketing to audiences outside of Austin, making
projects accessible to the public and to audiences with disabilities.
Now, as of the recording of this podcast, this rubric
hasn't been officially adopted.
But it looks like it's pretty close.
What about for the $5,000 grants?
For the $5,000 grants?
They won't have the music industry accomplishments piece.
They'll be scored on artist development, Austin music economy development, and
cultural tourism, marketing and outreach.
And one thing to know is that so far they've changed the criteria every
year, but Erica told me this time the criteria will be in place a bit longer.
Erica Shamaly: So we're, we've gathered data from the first year.
We've gathered data from the second year, and we'll do the same thing
again, uh, for this next cycle.
And what's interesting about this next cycle is that these guidelines that
we're forming as one Acme, there's one set of guidelines that will
cover all the different programs, is that it will be in place for longer.
You know, so we really, truly have some time to see how it's doing.
So the plan is to go back and do a big update every three years
when we've been doing it annually, you know, this whole time.
Miles Bloxson: Okay?
So this new scoring criteria is gonna be in place for like three years.
Elizabeth McQueen: Well, Erica told me that's the plan, unless
something goes really sideways
Miles Bloxson: and the long center is doing this scoring.
But isn't it kind of subjective?
Elizabeth McQueen: I had that question for Erica because I applied for arts funding
before and I had to like go in front of a panel and it did seem very subjective,
but Erica told me that the live music fund scoring isn't really that way.
Erica Shamaly: There isn't any subjectivity whatsoever.
There's a set of guidelines, there's some scoring criteria.
We asked a question if an applicant answers, you know, selects a,
something pops up that says.
Upload your documentation to evidence, your answer.
And so it's like that for each of our multiple choice.
And so their job is just to go look at the documentation to
see if evidence is the answer.
And if they don't know, if they can't tell, they, they create a
list and say, okay, city of Austin, let's go through these things.
And you're.
The final call of, if this meets what you intended in the program guidelines
for the other programs, there's panels, outside panels that do different
processes, and those are the types of processes that have been around for
years for both the cultural arts programs and the Heritage Preservation grant.
Miles Bloxson: So, okay.
A lot of things are changing this year.
First of all, there's going to be a common intake form for all arts funding that
will direct people to the grants they're eligible for, and then people have to
fill out an eligibility verification form, and if they are verified, then
they can apply for the Live Music Fund
Elizabeth McQueen: Yeah, and the amount of money in the live music fund
will be around $7 million this year.
The amount of money people can apply for is also different.
This year.
People can apply for $5,000 grants.
Those are for a term of one year.
People can also apply for $20,000 grants.
Those are for a two year term, and venues can apply for grants of $70,000.
Those grants have a one year term.
Miles Bloxson: The Long Center is still going to score and administer
the grants, but the scoring rubric is going to be different this year.
One thing they're considering that they haven't in the past is music industry
accomplishments for the $20,000 grants,
Elizabeth McQueen: and this scoring rubric is probably gonna stay the
same for the next three years.
Miles Bloxson: So when will all of this happen?
Elizabeth McQueen: Well, it looks like the intake forums will go live
sometime in September or October.
There's actually gonna be four grants on this intake forum, elevate, which is a
cultural arts grant, the Live Music Fund, the Creative Space Assistance Program,
and the Heritage Preservation Grant.
The actual applications should open on October 21st, and then those
eligibility forms will close December 1st, and then the application
deadline will be December 11th.
Miles Bloxson: Okay, so that's a lot of changes.
What can people do next?
Elizabeth McQueen: Well be on the lookout for the announcement that
those intake forms are going live, and when they do go live, the city's gonna
release info about workshops to help people who are interested in applying.
We'll post a link to the city's live music fund webpage in the show notes.
Also, the Museum of Human Achievement has grant writing hangouts.
For a lot of city funded grants, including the Live Music Fund There are
these coworking events where people can help each other with grant writing, and
listeners can find a link to learn more about those in the show notes as well.
Well,
Miles Bloxson: it's going to be interesting to see what this round
of the live music fund is like.
Elizabeth McQueen: Yeah.
I have a feeling we'll be talking about it in the next.
Miles Bloxson: In the next episode, we're going to talk about the
future of housing for musicians.
And to do that, we're going to take a look at a place that has
been housing musicians for decades.
The Metropolis Apartments Pauses.
Play is a production of KUT and KUTX studios.
It's hosted in, produced by me, Elizabeth McQueen, and me Mileson
Engineering and editing help from Jake Pearlman and Renee Chavez.
Additional production help from Jake Griff.
Stephanie Federico is our digital editor.
Michael Manasi is our multimedia editor.
Our theme song was created by the talented Jerron Marshall.
Other
Elizabeth McQueen: music provided by the talented Jack Anderson and a PM Cosplay
is a listener supported production of KUT and KTX studios in Austin, Texas.
Miles Bloxson: You can support our work by becoming a sustaining
member@supportthispodcast.org.