1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:01,060 I'm Miles Bloxson, 2 00:00:01,230 --> 00:00:02,760 And I'm Elizabeth McQueen. 3 00:00:02,760 --> 00:00:06,180 And this is Pause Play the podcast about live music, why 4 00:00:06,180 --> 00:00:08,520 it matters and what comes next. 5 00:00:08,700 --> 00:00:13,260 This season we're talking all about what the future might hold for Austin music. 6 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:16,380 In episode one, we talked about how musicians might make a 7 00:00:16,380 --> 00:00:18,300 living by doing all the things. 8 00:00:18,630 --> 00:00:22,710 In episode two, we explored whether musicians really need social media 9 00:00:22,710 --> 00:00:27,120 moving forward, and in episode three we're talking about streaming. 10 00:00:32,390 --> 00:00:32,810 Yeah. 11 00:00:33,199 --> 00:00:38,510 Most musicians use streaming services and also have their music on them, but when 12 00:00:38,510 --> 00:00:42,469 you ask artists if they make money from streaming music, you mostly get a response 13 00:00:42,469 --> 00:00:44,630 like this one from Carrie Rodriguez. 14 00:00:47,230 --> 00:00:50,769 When you're looking at streaming, like, do you count it as any kind of 15 00:00:52,269 --> 00:00:54,129 like noticeable part of your income? 16 00:00:54,129 --> 00:00:54,190 I. 17 00:00:54,849 --> 00:00:55,809 Not at all. 18 00:00:56,289 --> 00:00:56,829 Zero. 19 00:00:57,099 --> 00:00:57,489 No. 20 00:00:58,269 --> 00:00:58,420 Mm-hmm. 21 00:00:59,980 --> 00:01:00,129 Nope. 22 00:01:00,129 --> 00:01:02,679 So let's talk about streaming in this current moment. 23 00:01:03,009 --> 00:01:05,679 First off, a lot of people stream music. 24 00:01:05,919 --> 00:01:06,219 Yeah. 25 00:01:06,429 --> 00:01:10,419 According to the International Federation of the Phonographic Industry, or 26 00:01:10,509 --> 00:01:17,469 IFPI in 2024, streaming made up 69% of worldwide recorded music sales. 27 00:01:17,859 --> 00:01:21,489 According to the Recording Industry Association of America, that number 28 00:01:21,489 --> 00:01:26,109 is even higher in the US where streaming makes up 84% of revenue 29 00:01:26,259 --> 00:01:28,029 from just recorded music alone. 30 00:01:28,689 --> 00:01:33,579 In 2014, the global music industry brought in just under $15 billion. 31 00:01:33,579 --> 00:01:35,889 That a statistic from the IFPI 32 00:01:36,279 --> 00:01:40,119 and in 2024 it was over $29 billion. 33 00:01:40,449 --> 00:01:44,289 But like we said, most musicians don't see noticeable income from 34 00:01:44,289 --> 00:01:46,269 streaming and it's not just Carrie. 35 00:01:46,989 --> 00:01:49,929 In some of our earlier episodes, you heard from Tribe Mafia. 36 00:01:49,959 --> 00:01:53,109 They're an Austin group that has found a way to make money getting 37 00:01:53,109 --> 00:01:57,399 songs placed in movies and TV shows, also known as Sync licensing. 38 00:01:57,669 --> 00:02:01,749 And they do have one song called Travel the World that's done well in streaming. 39 00:02:01,989 --> 00:02:06,909 It has over 250,000 streams on Spotify and they've seen some money from it. 40 00:02:08,499 --> 00:02:10,239 Travel The world, it's impressive. 41 00:02:10,239 --> 00:02:12,969 It's like, okay, little 500, that's not bad. 42 00:02:13,185 --> 00:02:13,765 That's not bad. 43 00:02:13,930 --> 00:02:14,500 That's a flight. 44 00:02:14,739 --> 00:02:15,910 Yeah, yeah, exactly. 45 00:02:15,910 --> 00:02:16,000 Yeah. 46 00:02:16,509 --> 00:02:19,210 But the other song is the like, what, three bucks, 10 cents bucks. 47 00:02:19,216 --> 00:02:20,259 Like, why'd you even send this? 48 00:02:20,444 --> 00:02:20,964 I don't want this. 49 00:02:22,060 --> 00:02:22,719 You can keep that. 50 00:02:23,469 --> 00:02:25,690 It cost more money to send that than for us to get it. 51 00:02:26,805 --> 00:02:27,670 I, I don't need that. 52 00:02:27,969 --> 00:02:31,299 We've talked before about how little artists make from streams, 53 00:02:32,079 --> 00:02:34,539 I mean, it's pretty common knowledge that streams pay a 54 00:02:34,539 --> 00:02:36,999 third to a half a cent per stream. 55 00:02:37,689 --> 00:02:38,259 Yeah. 56 00:02:38,559 --> 00:02:42,549 I mean, we've used those numbers a lot in this podcast, but it wasn't 57 00:02:42,549 --> 00:02:46,059 until I started researching things for this story that I found out that it's 58 00:02:46,059 --> 00:02:48,639 actually way more complicated than that. 59 00:02:49,179 --> 00:02:53,019 Miles streaming is not paid out on a per strain basis. 60 00:02:53,349 --> 00:02:57,279 Instead, streaming is paid out on a prorata basis. 61 00:02:58,034 --> 00:03:00,719 Prota Prorata, what does that even mean? 62 00:03:01,019 --> 00:03:04,049 Okay, so the streaming service has take in money, right? 63 00:03:04,229 --> 00:03:07,919 And then they distribute this money based on how many song blah. 64 00:03:08,909 --> 00:03:12,119 Okay, so the streaming services take in money, right? 65 00:03:12,179 --> 00:03:16,289 And then they distribute this money based on how many plays a song gets 66 00:03:16,289 --> 00:03:18,929 versus how many songs get played total. 67 00:03:19,319 --> 00:03:22,019 The streaming services call this stream share. 68 00:03:22,319 --> 00:03:26,369 So say in one month, all Beyonce's songs get 1% of all streams. 69 00:03:26,369 --> 00:03:29,819 On Spotify, her stream share would be 1%. 70 00:03:30,419 --> 00:03:33,209 So they take all the money they made in a month and give 71 00:03:33,209 --> 00:03:35,279 the Queen Bee just 1% of it. 72 00:03:35,819 --> 00:03:37,169 Well, not really. 73 00:03:37,499 --> 00:03:37,919 First. 74 00:03:37,919 --> 00:03:39,929 Streaming services take their cut of revenue. 75 00:03:40,019 --> 00:03:43,259 This can be anywhere between 30 to almost 50%. 76 00:03:43,619 --> 00:03:47,789 So Beyonce gets 1% of whatever is left after the streaming 77 00:03:47,789 --> 00:03:49,199 services take their cut? 78 00:03:50,249 --> 00:03:50,469 No. 79 00:03:50,889 --> 00:03:51,639 Oh my goodness. 80 00:03:52,029 --> 00:03:52,359 Okay. 81 00:03:52,359 --> 00:03:56,139 So you may remember from when we talked about this in previous 82 00:03:56,139 --> 00:04:00,009 episodes, but every time a song gets played, there are two royalties paid. 83 00:04:00,009 --> 00:04:03,189 There's a songwriting royalty paid to whoever wrote the song, and 84 00:04:03,189 --> 00:04:04,929 then there's a mechanical royalty. 85 00:04:05,229 --> 00:04:08,649 This is paid to whoever owns the rights to the actual recorded 86 00:04:08,649 --> 00:04:10,989 version of this song streaming. 87 00:04:12,099 --> 00:04:15,129 Streaming services don't pay artists directly, like they 88 00:04:15,129 --> 00:04:16,719 don't pay Beyonce directly. 89 00:04:17,019 --> 00:04:20,379 Instead, they pay intermediaries like labels or distributors or 90 00:04:20,379 --> 00:04:24,009 aggregators for mechanical royalties, and they pay performing rights. 91 00:04:24,009 --> 00:04:28,239 Organizations like BMI, ASCAP or CSAC for songwriting royalties. 92 00:04:28,339 --> 00:04:32,299 And some streaming services like Spotify have deals with these labels 93 00:04:32,299 --> 00:04:34,789 and distributors that are super secret. 94 00:04:35,269 --> 00:04:38,869 Liz Pelley wrote a great book about Spotify called Mood Machine, 95 00:04:38,929 --> 00:04:42,229 the Rise of Spotify, and the Cost of the Perfect Playlist. 96 00:04:42,559 --> 00:04:45,019 It goes super deep into all things Spotify. 97 00:04:45,109 --> 00:04:46,009 I highly recommend it. 98 00:04:46,069 --> 00:04:51,619 And she writes that there are often NDAs in place so that artists on a label don't 99 00:04:51,619 --> 00:04:55,909 really even know what the labels deal with the streaming services looks like. 100 00:04:56,239 --> 00:04:59,389 But it's widely understood that major labels have really good 101 00:04:59,389 --> 00:05:01,009 deals, at least with Spotify. 102 00:05:03,124 --> 00:05:07,294 So Beyonce's on a major label, and she may not know how much money 103 00:05:07,294 --> 00:05:09,034 the label is getting for her music. 104 00:05:09,364 --> 00:05:09,874 Totally. 105 00:05:09,964 --> 00:05:13,624 Though I feel like Beyonce may have the clout to get to see that info, 106 00:05:13,624 --> 00:05:18,544 but mid-level artists on that label may not, but it gets more complicated. 107 00:05:18,859 --> 00:05:19,339 Does it? 108 00:05:19,999 --> 00:05:20,479 Oh yeah. 109 00:05:20,869 --> 00:05:24,619 On the mechanical royalty side, the amount that gets paid out can also depend 110 00:05:24,619 --> 00:05:28,309 on the territory, like where in the world the song is being streamed from. 111 00:05:28,699 --> 00:05:31,639 And it depends on what kind of subscription the song 112 00:05:31,639 --> 00:05:32,599 is getting streamed from. 113 00:05:32,599 --> 00:05:38,419 So if someone streams a song on Spotify free, it pays out differently than if 114 00:05:38,419 --> 00:05:40,489 they had a paid subscription to Spotify. 115 00:05:41,809 --> 00:05:42,769 And check this out. 116 00:05:42,769 --> 00:05:46,189 Labels and distributors don't just have deals in place with streaming services. 117 00:05:46,189 --> 00:05:49,399 They also have deals in place with artists detailing how they're gonna 118 00:05:49,399 --> 00:05:51,349 split the proceeds from any streaming. 119 00:05:51,349 --> 00:05:55,969 So a label may offer an artist in advance to make a record, and they 120 00:05:55,969 --> 00:05:59,509 take all of the mechanical royalties from that record until they make 121 00:05:59,509 --> 00:06:03,049 back the advance, and after they make back the advance, then they split 122 00:06:03,049 --> 00:06:04,579 those royalties with the artist. 123 00:06:04,849 --> 00:06:08,034 They also may ask for a share of the artist's songwriting royalties as well. 124 00:06:08,584 --> 00:06:10,744 What about songwriting royalties? 125 00:06:11,014 --> 00:06:15,784 Well, according to BMI, songwriting royalties are calculated by a quote, 126 00:06:16,114 --> 00:06:20,224 unique royalty rate for each work, which is based upon the license fees collected 127 00:06:20,224 --> 00:06:23,194 from the service that performed the work in combination with the number of 128 00:06:23,194 --> 00:06:25,204 times each work streamed on the service. 129 00:06:25,744 --> 00:06:27,064 What does that even mean? 130 00:06:28,234 --> 00:06:29,524 It means it's complicated, 131 00:06:30,784 --> 00:06:34,054 but a lot of artists in Austin are independent, which means they 132 00:06:34,054 --> 00:06:36,154 don't have labels or publishers. 133 00:06:36,154 --> 00:06:37,234 So what do they do? 134 00:06:37,999 --> 00:06:41,539 So in order to get their music on streaming services and collect 135 00:06:41,539 --> 00:06:45,289 mechanical royalties, they have to make deals with digital distribution 136 00:06:45,289 --> 00:06:47,719 companies like Tune Core or Distro Kid. 137 00:06:48,139 --> 00:06:51,499 All of those businesses charge something for those services, 138 00:06:51,499 --> 00:06:55,339 whether it's a subscription fee or a portion of the mechanical royalties. 139 00:06:55,429 --> 00:06:58,489 And then in order to get paid songwriting royalties, they have 140 00:06:58,489 --> 00:07:02,899 to register with performing rights organizations like BMI, ASCAP or csac. 141 00:07:03,909 --> 00:07:08,259 So if you're an artist before you see any money, the streaming service 142 00:07:08,259 --> 00:07:09,759 calculates your stream share. 143 00:07:09,879 --> 00:07:13,269 And then after they take their cut, they pay out your royalties 144 00:07:13,269 --> 00:07:15,039 to a label or a distributor. 145 00:07:15,069 --> 00:07:19,449 Or a publisher or aggregator based on a deal they made with that company. 146 00:07:19,779 --> 00:07:24,339 The details of which you may never know, and then the company gets their share of 147 00:07:24,339 --> 00:07:28,419 whatever amount of money you agreed on with them, and then you get your money. 148 00:07:29,019 --> 00:07:29,319 Yep. 149 00:07:29,979 --> 00:07:33,549 I mean, it's simple to say streams pay a third of a penny per share, but the 150 00:07:33,549 --> 00:07:36,429 reality is so much more complicated. 151 00:07:36,609 --> 00:07:38,349 Elizabeth, my brain hurts 152 00:07:40,119 --> 00:07:40,749 mine too. 153 00:07:41,234 --> 00:07:44,499 Do you know how long it took me to write this part of the episode? 154 00:07:44,499 --> 00:07:49,809 I mean, honestly, it's still like such an oversimplification of a really 155 00:07:49,809 --> 00:07:52,929 complex system that I bet there are people out there who think, I don't 156 00:07:52,929 --> 00:07:54,189 even know what I'm talking about. 157 00:07:54,189 --> 00:07:58,449 But the thing is like the point is it's super opaque and hard to 158 00:07:58,449 --> 00:08:02,859 understand like by design, and it can get even more complicated. 159 00:08:02,859 --> 00:08:03,399 Miles. 160 00:08:04,779 --> 00:08:04,839 How? 161 00:08:04,839 --> 00:08:05,109 Okay. 162 00:08:05,109 --> 00:08:09,159 So on Spotify, artists can opt into what's called discovery mode. 163 00:08:09,579 --> 00:08:13,029 They can basically trade a lower royalty rate for the chance of 164 00:08:13,029 --> 00:08:15,159 their music being more discoverable. 165 00:08:15,429 --> 00:08:17,559 It basically boosts music in the algorithm. 166 00:08:18,099 --> 00:08:22,119 And Spotify recently started a policy where if a track doesn't get a 167 00:08:22,119 --> 00:08:26,679 thousand streams in a 12 month period, then the artist isn't gonna see any 168 00:08:26,679 --> 00:08:29,079 streaming income from that song at all. 169 00:08:29,679 --> 00:08:30,729 That's crazy. 170 00:08:30,729 --> 00:08:34,239 I thought $0 was nothing. 171 00:08:34,239 --> 00:08:36,009 But this sounds a lot worse. 172 00:08:36,489 --> 00:08:38,379 Yeah, I mean, it's wild. 173 00:08:38,379 --> 00:08:41,829 It's like the music industry is growing and it's mostly growing because of 174 00:08:41,829 --> 00:08:46,809 streaming, but because of the way streaming is monetized, a lot of artists 175 00:08:46,809 --> 00:08:51,339 don't see much income and it's super confusing to try and figure out how 176 00:08:51,339 --> 00:08:53,469 the money is even being distributed. 177 00:08:54,939 --> 00:08:55,209 Yeah. 178 00:08:55,689 --> 00:08:58,959 And most artists have streaming subscriptions, so I wonder how many 179 00:08:58,959 --> 00:09:03,579 artists don't even make enough money from streaming to cover those subscriptions. 180 00:09:03,579 --> 00:09:03,639 Whoa. 181 00:09:03,639 --> 00:09:05,199 That's actually a very heavy thought. 182 00:09:05,199 --> 00:09:05,619 Miles. 183 00:09:06,489 --> 00:09:08,679 But it's not all doom and gloom. 184 00:09:08,739 --> 00:09:12,369 I mean, some people are making some money from streaming like Walker. 185 00:09:13,524 --> 00:09:15,024 My name is Walker Lukins. 186 00:09:15,084 --> 00:09:18,504 I'm a musician, and I, uh, have a podcast as well. 187 00:09:19,364 --> 00:09:21,524 You've heard from Walker on this podcast before. 188 00:09:21,674 --> 00:09:25,904 And like he said, he has a podcast of his own, it's called Song Confessional 189 00:09:26,024 --> 00:09:28,904 and KUT and KUTX studios distributes it. 190 00:09:29,234 --> 00:09:32,504 The song Confessional podcast is part of a larger song confessional 191 00:09:32,504 --> 00:09:36,824 project that Walker and his friend Zach Catanzaro started. 192 00:09:37,424 --> 00:09:38,504 We'll, let Walker tell you about it. 193 00:09:39,344 --> 00:09:40,364 Song confessional. 194 00:09:40,364 --> 00:09:42,854 We collect anonymous stories. 195 00:09:42,884 --> 00:09:44,054 We call them confessions. 196 00:09:44,054 --> 00:09:50,794 We go to like events, music festivals, state fairs, all sorts of stuff. 197 00:09:51,634 --> 00:09:53,914 People hire us, we come, we set up. 198 00:09:54,949 --> 00:09:58,489 People come into our confessional trailer and it's all anonymous 199 00:09:58,489 --> 00:09:59,629 and they tell us stories. 200 00:09:59,719 --> 00:10:03,229 Then me and the song Confessional Crew, we choose our favorite ones. 201 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:07,129 We give them to songwriters and bands who then will write and record a song. 202 00:10:07,129 --> 00:10:11,029 So how many songs has song confessional put out? 203 00:10:11,779 --> 00:10:14,149 I think like 75. 204 00:10:14,629 --> 00:10:19,434 And do you consider song confessional, like a label y? 205 00:10:19,439 --> 00:10:20,029 Yeah. 206 00:10:20,029 --> 00:10:22,429 I mean, we didn't set out to start a label. 207 00:10:22,429 --> 00:10:25,639 We just sort of fell into having one. 208 00:10:25,999 --> 00:10:28,129 But yeah, it's, it's, it's a label. 209 00:10:28,189 --> 00:10:28,399 Yeah. 210 00:10:28,729 --> 00:10:31,849 And you've had a couple of songs that like really hit. 211 00:10:32,089 --> 00:10:32,299 Mm-hmm. 212 00:10:33,229 --> 00:10:35,029 So could you tell people about that? 213 00:10:35,599 --> 00:10:44,789 Yeah, so we've had four songs kind of get into the next tier of streaming 214 00:10:44,789 --> 00:10:49,989 where they just have a natural, like, they have their own inertia. 215 00:10:50,439 --> 00:10:53,679 So like they, they get added to new playlists, not through 216 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:55,179 any effort of our own. 217 00:10:56,064 --> 00:10:57,594 They're getting streamed by new people. 218 00:10:57,594 --> 00:11:01,824 You know, they're just actually finding new listeners regularly. 219 00:11:02,424 --> 00:11:04,404 How many streams have those songs gotten? 220 00:11:05,994 --> 00:11:06,894 Um, 221 00:11:09,744 --> 00:11:12,234 probably like a hundred million streams if Whoa. 222 00:11:12,234 --> 00:11:12,659 Between a hundred. 223 00:11:12,664 --> 00:11:15,894 Like all told, all to all the services, like between a hundred million. 224 00:11:15,924 --> 00:11:18,324 I mean, not each, I'm talking about all of them together between 225 00:11:18,324 --> 00:11:19,734 like a hundred and 150 million. 226 00:11:19,759 --> 00:11:20,619 That's still a lot. 227 00:11:20,849 --> 00:11:21,139 Yeah. 228 00:11:21,289 --> 00:11:21,579 Yeah. 229 00:11:21,579 --> 00:11:22,219 That's a lot. 230 00:11:22,404 --> 00:11:23,514 That's like successful. 231 00:11:23,964 --> 00:11:28,494 Yeah, I mean, it's, it's not, it's four of 75, it's four different 232 00:11:28,494 --> 00:11:36,354 artists and it's, it's not, yeah, so it's not the traditional thing. 233 00:11:36,354 --> 00:11:39,594 The song Confessional Track that's Gotten the Most Streams is a song 234 00:11:39,594 --> 00:11:42,054 by Wild Child called Going In. 235 00:11:42,294 --> 00:11:45,894 This has over 43 million streams on Spotify, 236 00:11:46,464 --> 00:11:50,304 But like Walker said, not every song gets that amount of streams. 237 00:11:53,904 --> 00:11:58,444 We took some confessions last March at Schultz Garden. 238 00:11:59,044 --> 00:12:03,364 We chose one, we put it out, and then a bunch of people submitted songs. 239 00:12:03,364 --> 00:12:06,694 So our winner was, we chose this song to Sunglass Town by Brittany 240 00:12:06,694 --> 00:12:10,534 Binowski, who hadn't really released any music prior to that. 241 00:12:11,134 --> 00:12:12,064 She's not, she's like. 242 00:12:12,649 --> 00:12:16,609 Has not really done music with any seriousness for a couple years. 243 00:12:16,729 --> 00:12:22,519 It has, it came out March 1st, I think, and it has 8,000 streams. 244 00:12:23,189 --> 00:12:27,329 So song confessional songs get anywhere from 8,000 to 43 million 245 00:12:27,329 --> 00:12:29,519 streams and song confessional. 246 00:12:29,519 --> 00:12:30,569 and song confessional. 247 00:12:30,569 --> 00:12:33,929 The label has a deal with the artists who write the songs that they put out. 248 00:12:34,379 --> 00:12:37,319 They pay for the recording, so they take a hundred percent of the 249 00:12:37,319 --> 00:12:40,619 mechanical royalties until they cover the cost of that recording. 250 00:12:41,009 --> 00:12:44,459 Then they split the mechanical royalties with the artist 50 50. 251 00:12:44,819 --> 00:12:48,299 The artist keeps 100% of the songwriting royalties. 252 00:12:48,659 --> 00:12:51,419 And song confessional also has a deal with the distributor. 253 00:12:52,699 --> 00:12:58,310 The song confessional label uses a company called one RPM for distribution. 254 00:12:58,849 --> 00:13:04,579 And basically what that means is, uh, we, they upload our music to all the 255 00:13:04,579 --> 00:13:10,550 streaming platforms and they actually even offer physical distribution too. 256 00:13:10,619 --> 00:13:13,379 One RPM gives song confessional in advance. 257 00:13:13,530 --> 00:13:17,399 Then one RPM takes a hundred percent of the income from the mechanical 258 00:13:17,399 --> 00:13:21,240 royalties until they recoup or get all the money back from that advance. 259 00:13:21,599 --> 00:13:26,460 After that one RPM takes 20% of the income from the mechanical royalties 260 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:30,329 song confessional and the artist get their cut of the remaining 80%. 261 00:13:30,835 --> 00:13:34,345 And if Song, confessional song, and if the song, confessional song does 262 00:13:34,345 --> 00:13:38,545 well, like the Wild Child song, then everyone song Confessional the 263 00:13:38,545 --> 00:13:41,425 Artist and one RPM makes some money. 264 00:13:41,474 --> 00:13:44,564 So there is a way to make money streaming. 265 00:13:44,864 --> 00:13:44,954 Yeah. 266 00:13:45,014 --> 00:13:46,239 Like through streaming y 267 00:13:46,239 --> 00:13:47,114 Yeah, definitely. 268 00:13:47,144 --> 00:13:51,104 Walker told us he also makes streaming income from his own music and from 269 00:13:51,104 --> 00:13:53,054 music where he has a songwriting credit 270 00:13:53,624 --> 00:13:57,764 Last year I made from Stream me personally, so not song confession, 271 00:13:57,764 --> 00:13:59,174 not business, but just me. 272 00:13:59,444 --> 00:14:03,374 I made like probably like 15 grand. 273 00:14:04,484 --> 00:14:09,434 so that's songs that I wrote, songs that I wrote with other people, and songs 274 00:14:09,434 --> 00:14:14,024 that I released or covers, I released. 275 00:14:15,014 --> 00:14:16,065 So you could buy a car with that. 276 00:14:16,169 --> 00:14:16,889 and Walker. 277 00:14:17,009 --> 00:14:21,029 He sees the issues with streaming, but he also sees the benefits of it. 278 00:14:25,819 --> 00:14:28,639 There's this general sense that streaming is like. 279 00:14:28,969 --> 00:14:31,249 Not great for artists. 280 00:14:31,489 --> 00:14:31,879 Yeah. 281 00:14:32,029 --> 00:14:34,279 But you and I, you and I have talked about it. 282 00:14:34,339 --> 00:14:34,399 Yeah. 283 00:14:34,399 --> 00:14:37,579 And you have kind of like a more complex, you have more 284 00:14:37,579 --> 00:14:38,689 complex thoughts, I feel like. 285 00:14:38,719 --> 00:14:38,779 Yeah. 286 00:14:38,779 --> 00:14:42,349 I mean, I don't think it's fair to say it's not good for the artists. 287 00:14:42,409 --> 00:14:44,869 Uh, it's, yeah. 288 00:14:44,899 --> 00:14:46,429 I don't, I don't think that's fair. 289 00:14:46,429 --> 00:14:51,199 It's not that simple one, because artists are also consumers. 290 00:14:51,259 --> 00:14:57,979 And for consumers streaming rules, we have everything at our fingertips. 291 00:14:59,019 --> 00:15:01,449 And if you're an artist, you are a consumer and you're 292 00:15:01,449 --> 00:15:02,589 inspired by what you hear. 293 00:15:02,589 --> 00:15:07,419 So to say that it's all bad is like, is being a little, it's, there's a 294 00:15:07,419 --> 00:15:08,649 little cognitive dissonance there. 295 00:15:08,649 --> 00:15:11,289 'cause I'm like, I don't know anyone who doesn't listen to streaming. 296 00:15:12,309 --> 00:15:14,769 I mean, I, I think in that way, streaming is amazing. 297 00:15:14,769 --> 00:15:19,509 And to say that it's not an incredible resource, it's really wild. 298 00:15:20,049 --> 00:15:21,699 Uh, I also think that. 299 00:15:22,959 --> 00:15:25,719 The music industry has always sucked. 300 00:15:25,869 --> 00:15:27,189 It's always been bad. 301 00:15:27,189 --> 00:15:29,799 We've always been getting taken advantage of. 302 00:15:29,799 --> 00:15:34,839 You know, the, my favorite little quote is, I saw Ian Mackay give a talk from 303 00:15:34,839 --> 00:15:37,809 Fugazi, and he just said, music is water. 304 00:15:38,529 --> 00:15:42,639 Like we're talking about the container, we just sell you the container. 305 00:15:43,039 --> 00:15:46,159 Walker made it clear that he's not totally pro streaming. 306 00:15:46,279 --> 00:15:50,599 He knows that the way people get paid for streaming is not great, but he 307 00:15:50,599 --> 00:15:52,339 thinks there's a way to make things. 308 00:15:52,339 --> 00:15:52,729 Right. 309 00:15:56,389 --> 00:16:01,939 I mean, that part, I, it's the fix is simple, right? 310 00:16:02,149 --> 00:16:05,659 We have no protections for musicians and the streaming rate should be higher. 311 00:16:06,709 --> 00:16:11,149 It's just that simple in terms of the fix to, to the streaming services. 312 00:16:11,149 --> 00:16:13,429 Like there should just be a national law and it should go up 313 00:16:13,429 --> 00:16:15,319 to a penny or whatever, you know? 314 00:16:15,889 --> 00:16:21,349 Actually, there was a bill introduced in 2024 by Rashida TB and Jamal Bowman 315 00:16:21,349 --> 00:16:23,359 in the US House of Representatives. 316 00:16:23,659 --> 00:16:26,569 It's called the Living Wage for Musicians Act. 317 00:16:26,719 --> 00:16:30,199 It was developed in collaboration with the United musicians and allied 318 00:16:30,199 --> 00:16:34,969 workers, and it proposes to pay artists a minimum of a penny per stream 319 00:16:34,969 --> 00:16:38,989 According to the United Musicians and Allied Workers website, this would be paid 320 00:16:38,989 --> 00:16:44,089 for by an additional subscription fee and a 10% levy on non-subscription revenue. 321 00:16:44,799 --> 00:16:47,019 We'll have the link in the show notes if you wanna learn more 322 00:16:47,019 --> 00:16:48,669 about this possible solution. 323 00:16:48,969 --> 00:16:53,109 Coming up after the break, we'll hear from one Austin artist who wants to build 324 00:16:53,109 --> 00:16:55,299 an alternative to streaming platforms. 325 00:16:56,799 --> 00:16:57,669 Welcome back to Pause. 326 00:16:57,669 --> 00:17:01,839 Play a podcast about live music, why it matters, and what comes next. 327 00:17:02,169 --> 00:17:04,929 In this episode, we're looking at the future of streaming. 328 00:17:05,529 --> 00:17:08,769 Before the break, we heard about a bill that would raise streaming 329 00:17:08,769 --> 00:17:10,389 revenue to a penny per stream. 330 00:17:10,839 --> 00:17:13,749 And now we're gonna hear from one Austin artist who's hoping 331 00:17:13,749 --> 00:17:17,139 to build an alternative to streaming services as we know them. 332 00:17:17,589 --> 00:17:18,519 Meet Lauren. 333 00:17:19,899 --> 00:17:21,489 Hi, I am Lauren Bruno. 334 00:17:21,519 --> 00:17:27,549 I am an artist, a nonprofit director of $3 shows and the founder of Prosper xo. 335 00:17:28,319 --> 00:17:31,769 Lauren moved here in 2009 after graduating from Berkeley College 336 00:17:31,769 --> 00:17:36,509 of Music, and she came here like so many people do to play live music. 337 00:17:37,019 --> 00:17:41,519 She arrived here with an eight piece band called Polly Sky, and soon after a 338 00:17:41,519 --> 00:17:43,739 friend of the band suffered a tragedy. 339 00:17:46,049 --> 00:17:50,699 When I moved here, there Was a band called Bankrupt in the Borrowers. 340 00:17:51,029 --> 00:17:55,289 They went through a house fire and their trumpet player, John Petti, 341 00:17:55,289 --> 00:17:56,849 passed away in the house fire. 342 00:17:56,849 --> 00:18:01,799 And you know, the band that I was with, we, we knew at that time we 343 00:18:01,799 --> 00:18:04,919 wanted to start an organization that connected the arts community 344 00:18:04,919 --> 00:18:06,569 with the social issues community. 345 00:18:06,899 --> 00:18:09,749 We were just trying to figure out how that was gonna begin. 346 00:18:09,749 --> 00:18:14,369 And then this house fire happened and they needed to raise funds for the funeral and 347 00:18:14,369 --> 00:18:16,589 they wanted to support Sims Foundation. 348 00:18:16,889 --> 00:18:19,319 And so it all came together and our backyard. 349 00:18:19,379 --> 00:18:25,139 And we had our first, um, $3 show, which is the organization that I have 350 00:18:25,139 --> 00:18:26,969 been directing for a really long time. 351 00:18:26,969 --> 00:18:31,889 $3 shows is a nonprofit that $3 shows is a nonprofit that throws 352 00:18:31,889 --> 00:18:34,769 shows where the entry fee is only $3. 353 00:18:35,039 --> 00:18:38,039 Each show raises money for a different Austin nonprofit. 354 00:18:40,594 --> 00:18:43,774 Lauren played with Polly Sky for a while and then she started 355 00:18:43,774 --> 00:18:45,394 another band called Les Rav 356 00:18:46,244 --> 00:18:50,744 I did find some success in performing. 357 00:18:51,014 --> 00:18:56,324 But to be honest, I always found myself spending more money than making money. 358 00:18:56,504 --> 00:18:58,664 She did find success in sync licensing, 359 00:18:58,714 --> 00:19:02,674 The main way to be honest, that I, I made money in my career 360 00:19:02,734 --> 00:19:07,084 as a musician, was getting my music into film and video games. 361 00:19:07,504 --> 00:19:07,954 but. 362 00:19:08,409 --> 00:19:11,549 I did reach a point where it was not sustainable. 363 00:19:11,609 --> 00:19:11,939 Right. 364 00:19:11,969 --> 00:19:12,749 Entirely. 365 00:19:13,109 --> 00:19:17,009 When Lauren came to town in 2009, streaming was in its infancy. 366 00:19:17,219 --> 00:19:20,999 Most people made CDs and sold them at shows or through a distributor, 367 00:19:21,479 --> 00:19:25,769 and I was making records in 2009 and making money with recorded music. 368 00:19:25,799 --> 00:19:28,319 It was just easier to wrap your head around. 369 00:19:28,799 --> 00:19:32,399 Most artists in Austin are independent, meaning they're not signed to labels 370 00:19:32,399 --> 00:19:34,559 and they put out music by themselves. 371 00:19:35,279 --> 00:19:37,859 and the math, it was like simple. 372 00:19:38,369 --> 00:19:43,199 So say it took $10,000 to record a record, you know, pay for studio time, 373 00:19:43,199 --> 00:19:48,539 pay the band, pay the graphic designer and say each CD costs you $2 to reproduce. 374 00:19:48,539 --> 00:19:52,469 And say you sold your CDs at your shows for $10, maybe you 375 00:19:52,469 --> 00:19:54,419 got $5 from a distributor. 376 00:19:54,839 --> 00:19:58,529 So you could calculate more or less how many CDs you would need 377 00:19:58,529 --> 00:20:00,269 to sell to make your money back. 378 00:20:00,839 --> 00:20:05,609 It was like kind of easy addition and then division, do a little math 379 00:20:05,609 --> 00:20:09,779 and you knew you had to sell around 1500 records to make your money back. 380 00:20:10,349 --> 00:20:13,589 That is so much easier than trying to figure out this streaming thing. 381 00:20:14,009 --> 00:20:14,969 Yeah, I know. 382 00:20:14,969 --> 00:20:19,649 And to be clear, a lot of times people did not make their money back, but 383 00:20:19,649 --> 00:20:22,289 they had a sense of how it all worked. 384 00:20:22,799 --> 00:20:26,309 And you know, now that's not the case. 385 00:20:26,789 --> 00:20:27,539 and there's more, 386 00:20:31,539 --> 00:20:36,459 do either of, you know, how many songs a day are uploaded to streaming services? 387 00:20:37,059 --> 00:20:37,179 Oof. 388 00:20:38,049 --> 00:20:40,269 I maybe like 3000. 389 00:20:40,884 --> 00:20:41,874 We should find that out. 390 00:20:41,874 --> 00:20:42,899 I do know the answer to this, you guys. 391 00:20:42,899 --> 00:20:43,259 I'm so excited. 392 00:20:43,284 --> 00:20:44,604 It's 99,000. 393 00:20:44,724 --> 00:20:45,174 Oh wow. 394 00:20:45,379 --> 00:20:45,619 A day. 395 00:20:45,894 --> 00:20:46,284 Oh my God. 396 00:20:46,284 --> 00:20:47,544 I just got the chills. 397 00:20:47,604 --> 00:20:48,504 I did not know. 398 00:20:48,504 --> 00:20:49,854 That's statistic. 399 00:20:49,854 --> 00:20:51,024 Oh my gosh. 400 00:20:51,114 --> 00:20:56,364 So almost a hundred thousand songs are uploaded to streaming services a day. 401 00:20:56,664 --> 00:20:58,854 So when you put out music, you're competing with a 402 00:20:58,854 --> 00:21:00,354 huge amount of other music. 403 00:21:00,834 --> 00:21:04,374 and like we talked about earlier, when it's all said and done, artists make about 404 00:21:04,374 --> 00:21:06,744 a third to a half of a penny per stream. 405 00:21:07,534 --> 00:21:10,834 To even make minimum wage, you have to have 800. 406 00:21:11,374 --> 00:21:13,054 Thousand streams a month 407 00:21:13,604 --> 00:21:16,814 And there was something else that bothered Lauren about how we do streaming, 408 00:21:19,484 --> 00:21:23,874 I started learning about streaming and the reality of data. 409 00:21:24,084 --> 00:21:28,104 So something we didn't touch on yet is that, you know, when an artist 410 00:21:28,164 --> 00:21:36,204 uploads their music to a platform like Spotify, you know, Spotify owns 95% of 411 00:21:36,204 --> 00:21:41,574 that data and what they use that data for in, in simple terms, the granular 412 00:21:41,574 --> 00:21:47,694 raw data is to incur more revenue, uh, through sponsorship and add placement. 413 00:21:47,884 --> 00:21:51,334 , And that granular data holds a lot of power because that's all 414 00:21:51,334 --> 00:21:53,374 about your audience as an artist. 415 00:21:53,424 --> 00:21:58,914 I mean, down to, you know, location and emails and just behavior and mood. 416 00:21:58,914 --> 00:22:02,904 And, you know, Spotify has most of that on lock. 417 00:22:03,234 --> 00:22:05,754 But artists don't have access to all that data. 418 00:22:06,024 --> 00:22:09,474 Spotify for artists lets them see some of it in broad strokes, 419 00:22:09,474 --> 00:22:13,464 but the majority of that granular data isn't available to artists. 420 00:22:16,094 --> 00:22:20,474 So if you're an artist with music on a streaming platform, you are like one small 421 00:22:20,474 --> 00:22:24,674 part of this huge amount of music that's being released and it's hard to make 422 00:22:24,674 --> 00:22:29,384 much money on your music and you don't even have full access to your own data. 423 00:22:29,684 --> 00:22:33,284 It's understandable that so many artists feel discouraged. 424 00:22:33,554 --> 00:22:37,394 And Lauren, she felt like she wanted to do something about it. 425 00:22:39,554 --> 00:22:46,034 I was led to a place also just in terms of seeing what the industry was experiencing. 426 00:22:46,124 --> 00:22:50,294 You know, artists giving up, friends of mine, giving up, uh, friends of 427 00:22:50,294 --> 00:22:55,574 mine, taking their lives, you know, really hearing at the ground level that 428 00:22:55,634 --> 00:22:58,514 this was no longer a sustainable path. 429 00:22:58,544 --> 00:23:01,724 And, and seeing it, you know, in my friends. 430 00:23:01,724 --> 00:23:05,594 But it just reached a point when I started learning more about the realities of 431 00:23:05,594 --> 00:23:11,234 where the industry is at, and then hearing that statistic that 61% of musicians in 432 00:23:11,234 --> 00:23:13,724 America are living below the poverty line. 433 00:23:13,764 --> 00:23:17,514 I knew enough where it was just like, I can't not do anything, 434 00:23:17,514 --> 00:23:22,464 There's a lot going on in the industry that society doesn't really know, but also 435 00:23:22,464 --> 00:23:25,014 artists themselves aren't really aware of. 436 00:23:25,554 --> 00:23:31,524 So for me, it began as in that mind frame of I, I called 437 00:23:31,824 --> 00:23:33,474 Prosper XO a movement, right? 438 00:23:33,474 --> 00:23:37,374 Because first and foremost what I feel is most important is, 439 00:23:37,494 --> 00:23:39,444 again, education and listening. 440 00:23:39,744 --> 00:23:45,054 So, you know, and then the whole, the whole aspect of the technology is we 441 00:23:45,054 --> 00:23:49,314 came to a point where it, we need to build tools, solutions, we need to go 442 00:23:49,314 --> 00:23:53,694 towards solutions because we could talk about this all day long, but if we're 443 00:23:53,789 --> 00:23:56,964 not going towards solutions, you know. 444 00:23:58,219 --> 00:23:59,509 Where were we gonna be left at? 445 00:23:59,509 --> 00:24:04,279 That's why a couple of months ago, the idea of Prosper XO was born. 446 00:24:04,639 --> 00:24:08,419 Lauren said that she sees Prosper XO as an artist centered tool. 447 00:24:08,779 --> 00:24:10,909 And there are a couple of different things that Lauren wants 448 00:24:10,909 --> 00:24:12,559 to accomplish with Prosper xo. 449 00:24:12,859 --> 00:24:16,069 First off, she wants to look into other ways of getting money 450 00:24:16,219 --> 00:24:18,259 into the hands of musicians. 451 00:24:19,279 --> 00:24:24,229 When I was working with the $3 shows, what I was seeing that was 452 00:24:24,229 --> 00:24:29,369 really incredible was, sponsors wanting to directly sponsor artists. 453 00:24:29,459 --> 00:24:33,749 So for $3 shows in our sponsorship deck, we had that as an option as. 454 00:24:34,274 --> 00:24:36,734 A sponsor just directly sponsoring an artist. 455 00:24:36,734 --> 00:24:40,994 So Prosper XO could be a tool that connects artists with local sponsors. 456 00:24:42,604 --> 00:24:47,314 I mean, we all know how supportive and like loving the local business here in 457 00:24:47,314 --> 00:24:49,474 Austin is of, of supporting artists. 458 00:24:49,834 --> 00:24:53,434 And Prosper XO could also be a way for musicians to have more 459 00:24:53,434 --> 00:24:57,994 access to their own data and to reframe how they think of data. 460 00:24:59,284 --> 00:25:03,784 The data is important, but first party data is different 461 00:25:03,784 --> 00:25:05,314 from third party data, right? 462 00:25:05,314 --> 00:25:08,614 So all of this data that's on these platforms, it's called 463 00:25:08,614 --> 00:25:10,024 third party data, right? 464 00:25:10,054 --> 00:25:15,094 And most of it has to do with the granular, raw numbers, 465 00:25:15,424 --> 00:25:17,074 but first party data. 466 00:25:17,074 --> 00:25:21,254 A lot of it can be about like, an artist likes to work with mental health 467 00:25:21,254 --> 00:25:26,024 organizations or their lyrics, or, there's so much in the world of data 468 00:25:26,024 --> 00:25:29,984 that you can learn about an artist and look at it in a different perspective. 469 00:25:30,254 --> 00:25:32,954 That is even more valuable than numbers. 470 00:25:32,954 --> 00:25:36,464 And Lauren Envisions legal help as a part of Prosper XO as well. 471 00:25:37,424 --> 00:25:41,624 The other piece too was within this tool that we're building is 472 00:25:42,154 --> 00:25:45,004 we could put everybody together, but if they're not protected, 473 00:25:45,084 --> 00:25:46,374 what is it gonna matter? 474 00:25:46,374 --> 00:25:48,784 So there's a legal aspect to all of it 475 00:25:48,804 --> 00:25:52,584 Prosper is only at the very beginning of their journey and they've done 476 00:25:52,584 --> 00:25:54,084 some things that you can check out. 477 00:25:54,924 --> 00:26:00,054 So we just released open letters to the global music industry and the Austin 478 00:26:00,054 --> 00:26:02,664 Music Industry, uh, and to artists. 479 00:26:02,754 --> 00:26:04,404 You can read those on their website. 480 00:26:04,494 --> 00:26:05,904 There's a link in the show notes. 481 00:26:07,914 --> 00:26:10,554 And then we also released our surveys. 482 00:26:10,894 --> 00:26:14,284 They're really about listening and learning about what artists are 483 00:26:14,284 --> 00:26:19,574 experiencing, not just artists, brands, industry, fans, community. 484 00:26:19,874 --> 00:26:22,274 Um, they're really short, but it's, it. 485 00:26:22,779 --> 00:26:24,549 Again, we wanna start with listening. 486 00:26:24,939 --> 00:26:27,939 We'll have the links to the surveys on the show notes page as well. 487 00:26:28,269 --> 00:26:31,689 And they're gathering people together in real life. 488 00:26:33,689 --> 00:26:35,429 All of this is online, right? 489 00:26:35,499 --> 00:26:39,189 We think it's very important to remain in person too. 490 00:26:39,469 --> 00:26:41,849 And continue the conversation in that way. 491 00:26:42,059 --> 00:26:46,469 So we started these monthly meetups that will be happening at Capital Factory and 492 00:26:46,739 --> 00:26:50,999 those, you know, we want for networking, we want to start conversations with 493 00:26:50,999 --> 00:26:56,099 people that are already really active in building resources or already have 494 00:26:56,099 --> 00:26:58,349 made steps towards solution and change. 495 00:26:58,879 --> 00:27:03,229 Lauren told us she sees Prosper XO being built out in five stages. 496 00:27:03,919 --> 00:27:07,609 You know, phase five, I'd like to build an alternative to Spotify. 497 00:27:09,469 --> 00:27:10,669 Spotify, I realize the name. 498 00:27:10,669 --> 00:27:11,449 Let's collaborate. 499 00:27:13,969 --> 00:27:16,459 Let's build a better alternative together. 500 00:27:17,994 --> 00:27:21,294 It's not clear what will happen next, but maybe Lauren and the team 501 00:27:21,294 --> 00:27:25,204 at Prosper XL will make something that works better for artists. 502 00:27:25,204 --> 00:27:29,704 Think for me it was like, these platforms have us all in a choke hold. 503 00:27:30,904 --> 00:27:36,794 It's time to create something different, that really gives more empowerment and 504 00:27:36,794 --> 00:27:40,734 equity to the artist, because here's the thing, , without the artist, 505 00:27:40,734 --> 00:27:42,234 where would these platforms be? 506 00:27:42,564 --> 00:27:43,134 You know? 507 00:27:43,254 --> 00:27:47,484 And so it really was that moment where I was like, okay, like. 508 00:27:47,979 --> 00:27:49,479 It's time to build the solution. 509 00:27:49,479 --> 00:27:51,649 And we're gonna start taking steps towards that. 510 00:27:52,009 --> 00:27:56,029 we wanna thank Lauren and Walker and Carrie and Tribe Mafia for talking 511 00:27:56,029 --> 00:28:00,229 to us about streaming and after all of this miles, what do you think 512 00:28:00,229 --> 00:28:01,579 about the future of streaming? 513 00:28:02,219 --> 00:28:09,149 Ah, I'm so conflicted, Elizabeth because I literally use streaming every single day. 514 00:28:09,179 --> 00:28:14,039 I mean, I pretty much, I think I'm signed up for almost every single platform, 515 00:28:14,249 --> 00:28:17,819 which I need to go check my account for that, but that's neither here nor there. 516 00:28:17,819 --> 00:28:21,749 But I still feel like as the consumer, I'm getting the better deal than the artist. 517 00:28:21,959 --> 00:28:25,079 I'm consuming their music on a daily basis. 518 00:28:25,289 --> 00:28:28,979 They're setting my frequency every time I get in my car when I'm out and 519 00:28:28,979 --> 00:28:32,759 about with my friends, and we're using our Bluetooth speakers and we can, we 520 00:28:32,759 --> 00:28:37,319 have access to all of this music at our very fingertips, but the artist is not 521 00:28:37,319 --> 00:28:40,799 getting paid the amount of money that they should for what I'm consuming. 522 00:28:41,159 --> 00:28:44,969 So I just wish that we had something out there that was, you know, 523 00:28:44,969 --> 00:28:48,119 better for them to make a living and to continue making music. 524 00:28:48,359 --> 00:28:49,409 I totally agree. 525 00:28:49,409 --> 00:28:54,959 I mean, like you said, I also use streaming all the time, and I agree with 526 00:28:54,959 --> 00:28:59,489 Walker that from an artist's perspective, having access to so much music, so 527 00:28:59,489 --> 00:29:01,739 much inspiration is like a great thing. 528 00:29:02,339 --> 00:29:06,599 But yeah, these platforms are just better for consumers than they are for creators. 529 00:29:06,629 --> 00:29:10,949 And I also kind of have this hunger for something else. 530 00:29:10,949 --> 00:29:15,059 I think if there was an alternative out there, I would definitely use it. 531 00:29:15,059 --> 00:29:16,529 Something that treated artists better. 532 00:29:16,829 --> 00:29:19,949 Right now there's really not, you know, other than just like 533 00:29:20,159 --> 00:29:21,659 not using streaming at all. 534 00:29:22,139 --> 00:29:27,804 But I really hope that in the future there is a platform that treats artists 535 00:29:28,169 --> 00:29:29,819 a lot better than these platforms do. 536 00:29:32,084 --> 00:29:37,574 In the next episode we'll be talking about AI and music and we wanna hear from 537 00:29:37,574 --> 00:29:40,334 you, how do you feel about AI and music? 538 00:29:40,424 --> 00:29:43,724 You can head on over to our Instagram pauses, play pod 539 00:29:43,724 --> 00:29:45,434 and DM us and let us know. 540 00:29:45,519 --> 00:29:48,129 we'll DM you back and you may make it in the episode. 541 00:29:50,914 --> 00:29:53,314 I like going to get cds 542 00:29:53,314 --> 00:29:54,114 Deep thoughts. 543 00:29:54,114 --> 00:29:56,514 You know, I see Walker's point. 544 00:29:56,514 --> 00:30:00,914 Having all of recorded music at our fingertips is pretty great 545 00:30:00,914 --> 00:30:02,514 from an artist perspective. 546 00:30:02,514 --> 00:30:07,314 But it's just so much more complicated to make money from recorded 547 00:30:07,314 --> 00:30:12,514 music now, especially if you're a band or artists that may have an 548 00:30:12,514 --> 00:30:15,314 audience, but it might not be huge. 549 00:30:15,314 --> 00:30:18,914 This system, from my perspective really puts mid-level artists 550 00:30:18,914 --> 00:30:20,914 and below at a disadvantage. 551 00:30:20,914 --> 00:30:26,114 And now these streaming services are making deals with AI companies, so there's 552 00:30:26,114 --> 00:30:32,514 going to be this flood of AI generated music -- it doesn seem like we're going to 553 00:30:32,514 --> 00:30:36,114 need some kind of fix for the whole thing. 554 00:30:36,114 --> 00:30:36,914 Deep thoughts. 555 00:30:36,914 --> 00:30:39,314 You know, I see Walker's point. 556 00:30:39,314 --> 00:30:43,714 Having all of recorded music at our fingertips is pretty great 557 00:30:43,714 --> 00:30:45,314 from an artist perspective. 558 00:30:45,314 --> 00:30:50,114 But it's just so much more complicated to make money from recorded 559 00:30:50,114 --> 00:30:55,314 music now, especially if you're a band or artists that may have an 560 00:30:55,314 --> 00:30:58,114 audience, but it might not be huge. 561 00:30:58,114 --> 00:31:01,714 This system, from my perspective really puts mid-level artists 562 00:31:01,714 --> 00:31:03,714 and below at a disadvantage. 563 00:31:03,714 --> 00:31:08,914 And now these streaming services are making deals with AI companies, so there's 564 00:31:08,914 --> 00:31:15,314 going to be this flood of AI generated music -- it doesn seem like we're going to 565 00:31:15,314 --> 00:31:18,914 need some kind of fix for the whole thing. 566 00:31:18,914 --> 00:31:24,514 In the latest episode of Pause/Play, we dive into the world of streaming — how 567 00:31:24,514 --> 00:31:29,714 artists really feel about it, the benefits and challenges, and how one austin 568 00:31:29,714 --> 00:31:32,514 artist is trying to build an alternative