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Previously on Growth Machine.

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So it's this huge grassroots

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uprising. And mind you, this is a

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zoning case, right?

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But it's not like any other zoning

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case.

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Oh, it was wild.

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Every cause has to have a villain.

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And Jim Bob Moffet and Gary Bradley

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were like poster child.

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And as a geologist, I will promise

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you, I know more about Barton Creek

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than anybody in this room.

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Bullshit!

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Excuse me.

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Basically, they created a petition

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to take these stricter development

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rules and enshrine them into

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city code through a popular vote.

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Force the city to put strict caps on

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development in the southwest of

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town.

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My car windows were smashed, my

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car tires were slashed.

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I had a high powered rifle shot

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through my house twice.

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Good evening. The people of Austin

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have spoken and a majority say they

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want a stronger ordinance to protect

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Barton Springs.

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And even in these interviews, right

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after the election is called,

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you start hearing these fault lines

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appear.

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So the Save Our Springs people are

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coming off of this big high.

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Their petition was a success and

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Austinites voted to limit

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development in Southwest Austin

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to protect Barton Springs.

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But as these stories often go,

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state lawmakers then got involved.

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In 1993, then Senator Ken

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Armbrister, a Democrat from

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Victoria, Texas, filed a

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bill that would let some developers

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go ahead with projects in Southwest

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Austin, and they wouldn't have to

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follow the new S.O.S.

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rules. This was what developers

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wanted, and what they'd lobbied for.

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Remember Gary Bradley?

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He's a local developer we heard from

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in the last episode.

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I went to the legislature

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to get justice because I couldn't

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get it at City Council.

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But Austin environmentalists also

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had allies at the legislature.

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Okay, Senator from Travis,

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Senator Barrientos, lays out

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amendment number six ...

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Senator Gonzalo Barrientos

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represented Austin for more than two

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decades, and in 1993,

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he was ready to do whatever it took

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to stop this developer friendly

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bill.

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Mr. President, members,

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this will have been the very first

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time that

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I will filibuster.

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Filibustering is a way to stop or

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delay a bill.

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Basically, senators make these long,

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winding speeches in an attempt

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to block a vote, and you

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have to follow a couple of rules.

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You can't sit down.

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You can't eat or drink.

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You can't leave the Senate floor,

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which means you can't use the

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bathroom, and you have to talk

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the whole time.

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Where you see members,

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I'm speaking against this law

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because I don't believe that we have

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to go to extremes

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in most cases.

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To pass the time.

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Barrientos read a bunch of things.

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He read the S.O.S.

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petition in its entirety.

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It reads, "Save our Springs

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Initiative Petition,

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an ordinance initiated by petition

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by the citizens of Austin to prevent

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pollution Barton Springs,

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Barton Creek and the Barton

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Springs Edwards Aquifer."

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He listed off some of the tens of

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thousands of people who signed

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the petition.

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Melody Evans.

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Barbara Visser.

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Barbara Frizzell.

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Ray Garcia signed up.

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Ray Garcia. You know, the one from

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Chippewa Street.

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He also just adlibbed a bunch of

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stuff. Often, it seemed, hamming

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it up for the more conservative,

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Austin-bashing lawmakers.

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You know, some people around the

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state sometimes think that were

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kind of nutty around here

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because we talk all the time about

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Barton Springs and Barton

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Creek and the Barton Springs

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Aquifer.

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You say they think

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that we're radical

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tree huggers, that

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we're nuts about the water

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in the Barton Springs

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swimming pool.

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And yet

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when people visit here, they say,

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"Oh, it's so beautiful.

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We want to keep it this way."

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It wasn't entirely clear how

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Barrientos actually felt about this

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bill. At times it seemed like

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the senator was not actually on the

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side of the Barton Springs

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environmentalists.

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You're a little bitty old, sleepy

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town of Austin, Texas.

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Just a while back was 50,000,

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80,000, 100,000

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people.

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Now we're going on to half a

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million.

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We can't tell people to leave,

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even though some of my environmental

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friends, environmentalists,

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some would have us build a fence

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around the city of Austin.

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We cannot do that.

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But the senator felt he had to stop

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the bill.

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He was elected to represent the

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people of Austin who had voted

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to limit development in the Barton

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Creek area.

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We had thousands and

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thousands of people

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vote on this issue.

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And I could not go back in good

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conscience and

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try to cut deals for them

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because they have already voted.

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Barrientos filibustered for hours

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and hours.

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These waters that have been gushing

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forth ...

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He talked on and on and

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on.

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In order to prevent pollution,

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impervious cover for ...

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12, 13, 14

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hours.

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From three in the afternoon until

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nine in the morning.

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20% in the contributing zone within

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the Barton Creek watershed ...

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And at that point Barrientos had

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been standing up and talking

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for nearly 18 hours straight.

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Because they generally require less

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fertilizer ...

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Towards the end of it, the senator

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started stumbling over his words.

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The guy was tired.

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Stormwater runoff should have a

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[stuttering] velocity.

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Just before 10 a.m., he gave up

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and walked off the floor.

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Runoff approaches the ...

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Throughout those 18 hours of

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reading, grandstanding and,

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well, maybe holding his bladder,

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Barrientos said multiple times he

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had one wish.

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One wish that would have helped him

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avoid this fight.

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I truly believe

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that had environmentalist

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developers,

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City of Austin City

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Council members

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sat down at a table

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and not gotten up,

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we would have been able to

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work out a compromise.

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A

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compromise.

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Turns out the senator would

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get just that.

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I'm Andrew McGlinchey.

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This is Growth Machine: How Austin

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Engineered its Housing Market.

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Episode four, Smart Growth

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or Dumb Growth?

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Mose Buchele, a reporter here at KUT,

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is gonna join me again for this

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episode. Hey, Mose.

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Good to be back, Audrey.

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So, while the battle for Barton

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Springs was going on, at Austin City

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Hall and then at the state

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legislature, another environmental

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struggle was taking place in the

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city.

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That's right. And it focused not

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on Barton Springs and development

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in the city's West Side.

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It focused on East

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Austin.

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Like you heard in earlier episodes

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of this podcast.

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East Austin was historically where

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black and Hispanic people lived.

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It was more working class, lower

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income.

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And this was the legacy of

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segregation.

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The 1928 master plan

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and eventually the construction of

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I-35 in the sixties.

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Susana Almanza is a local activist

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and she grew up in East Austin.

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What you saw in East Austin were

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small businesses, mom and pop

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businesses owned by the community.

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When you went down the street, you

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saw people who looked just like you.

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The East Side also had more heavy

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industry than other parts of the

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city. Of course, it was no accident

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polluting businesses ended up there.

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The city had done industrial zoning

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in our communities, which

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allowed for hazardous

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corporations or facilities to be

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across the street from schools next

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to residents.

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And so we know that zoning

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was a racism tool

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that had been used against our

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communities.

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By the 1980s, people in the East

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Side started organizing to fight

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back.

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They opposed plans to put a big tech

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center in the Montopolis

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neighborhood on the East Side.

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They took aim at a gas fired power

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plant that the city had put in East

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Austin's Holly neighborhood.

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They demanded the city move a

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recycling center that they said

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brought rats and pollution

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to their neighborhood.

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Yeah, Susana and her group, People

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Organized in Defense of Earth

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and her Resources, or PODER,

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led efforts to move a big

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gasoline storage facility, called a

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tank farm, away from East Side

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neighborhoods.

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Move those tanks! Move those tanks!
Move those tanks!

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Six of the largest oil

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corporations in the world.

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Chevron, ExxonMobil, Texaco,

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Citco, Gulf States.

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They were all in East Austin in

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a 52 acre tank farm,

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which had benzene, toluene, xylene,

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00:09:04,550 --> 00:09:06,379
all of these terrible

291
00:09:06,380 --> 00:09:07,219
emissions.

292
00:09:07,220 --> 00:09:09,079
And, as we know, benzene was known

293
00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:10,339
to cause cancer.

294
00:09:10,340 --> 00:09:12,139
At first, Susana says her group

295
00:09:12,140 --> 00:09:14,119
didn't have much to do with the West

296
00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:15,739
Side Barton Springs activists.

297
00:09:15,740 --> 00:09:16,740
But by the time the Save Our Springs
ordinance

298
00:09:17,570 --> 00:09:19,819
was up for a vote in 1992,

299
00:09:19,820 --> 00:09:21,379
she had thrown her support behind

300
00:09:21,380 --> 00:09:23,119
it. She says this was a tough

301
00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:23,869
decision.

302
00:09:23,870 --> 00:09:25,909
We felt PODER had to walk a real

303
00:09:25,910 --> 00:09:27,859
delicate line in it because

304
00:09:27,860 --> 00:09:29,212
we did have a lot of people that

305
00:09:29,213 --> 00:09:30,469
were in the community that were

306
00:09:30,470 --> 00:09:32,989
upset that how could we side with

307
00:09:32,990 --> 00:09:34,909
the whole Save Our Springs.

308
00:09:34,910 --> 00:09:36,859
So why were people on the East

309
00:09:36,860 --> 00:09:38,869
Side suspicious of West

310
00:09:38,870 --> 00:09:40,159
Austin environmentalism?

311
00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:42,169
Well, for one thing, the

312
00:09:42,170 --> 00:09:44,119
concerns of the West Side

313
00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:45,979
activists always

314
00:09:45,980 --> 00:09:47,539
seemed to take priority at City

315
00:09:47,540 --> 00:09:48,079
Hall.

316
00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:50,029
The environmentalists in West

317
00:09:50,030 --> 00:09:52,609
Austin did have the ear

318
00:09:52,610 --> 00:09:54,559
of the City Council, and they knew

319
00:09:54,560 --> 00:09:56,419
them personally because, as we know,

320
00:09:56,420 --> 00:09:57,619
most of the City Council

321
00:09:57,620 --> 00:09:59,179
representatives were from West

322
00:09:59,180 --> 00:10:00,169
Austin.

323
00:10:00,170 --> 00:10:01,459
And so, of course, they were going

324
00:10:01,460 --> 00:10:03,349
to want to protect, you know,

325
00:10:03,350 --> 00:10:04,699
their environment.

326
00:10:04,700 --> 00:10:06,349
East side environmentalist were

327
00:10:06,350 --> 00:10:08,929
fighting, I mean, cancer-causing

328
00:10:08,930 --> 00:10:11,839
pollution in their neighborhood.

329
00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:14,089
West Side activists were fighting

330
00:10:14,090 --> 00:10:15,529
for a swimming pool.

331
00:10:15,530 --> 00:10:17,209
I mean, it sometimes felt like when

332
00:10:17,210 --> 00:10:18,919
it came to East Austin, the city

333
00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:20,359
didn't think there was any

334
00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:22,009
environment to protect.

335
00:10:22,010 --> 00:10:23,179
When a bird called the

336
00:10:23,180 --> 00:10:24,889
Golden-cheeked Warbler might have

337
00:10:24,890 --> 00:10:25,969
heard of, it was listed as

338
00:10:25,970 --> 00:10:28,309
endangered and more

339
00:10:28,310 --> 00:10:30,199
West Austin Hill Country land

340
00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:31,200
was going to be protected, Susana

341
00:10:32,210 --> 00:10:34,339
says a joke started going around.

342
00:10:34,340 --> 00:10:35,449
Well, we're the "Brown-cheeked

343
00:10:35,450 --> 00:10:37,129
Warblers," why can't we protect the

344
00:10:37,130 --> 00:10:38,330
land over here?

345
00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:43,429
That's not to say the defenders of

346
00:10:43,430 --> 00:10:45,049
Barton Springs were having an easy

347
00:10:45,050 --> 00:10:46,219
time of it.

348
00:10:46,220 --> 00:10:47,659
We opened this episode talking about

349
00:10:47,660 --> 00:10:49,549
how state lawmakers tried to water

350
00:10:49,550 --> 00:10:50,419
down the S.O.S.

351
00:10:50,420 --> 00:10:52,279
ordinance almost as soon as it went

352
00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:53,209
into effect.

353
00:10:53,210 --> 00:10:54,979
Despite the filibuster from State

354
00:10:54,980 --> 00:10:57,379
Senator Gonzalo Barrientos, the bill

355
00:10:57,380 --> 00:10:59,209
to do that passed

356
00:10:59,210 --> 00:11:00,409
in 1993.

357
00:11:00,410 --> 00:11:01,999
The only thing stopping it that year

358
00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:03,679
was Governor Ann Richards.

359
00:11:03,680 --> 00:11:05,748
She ended up vetoing this bill

360
00:11:05,749 --> 00:11:06,749
By 1995, there

361
00:11:07,670 --> 00:11:09,439
was a new governor in town with his

362
00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:11,359
own ideas about

363
00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:12,439
the environment.

364
00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:14,509
I know the human being and

365
00:11:14,510 --> 00:11:16,609
fish can co-exist peacefully.

366
00:11:16,610 --> 00:11:17,749
That's right.

367
00:11:17,750 --> 00:11:19,459
By this point, George W.

368
00:11:19,460 --> 00:11:21,319
Bush is governor

369
00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:22,429
of Texas.

370
00:11:22,430 --> 00:11:24,409
So in 1995, opponents

371
00:11:24,410 --> 00:11:25,939
of S.O.S. headed back to the

372
00:11:25,940 --> 00:11:27,769
Capitol, this time with a governor

373
00:11:27,770 --> 00:11:29,599
who was more sympathetic to

374
00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:30,379
them.

375
00:11:30,380 --> 00:11:31,819
Suddenly, Gary Bradley and other

376
00:11:31,820 --> 00:11:34,189
Austin developers had the advantage.

377
00:11:34,190 --> 00:11:35,779
Well, people at the legislature care

378
00:11:35,780 --> 00:11:38,089
about truth, care about justice,

379
00:11:38,090 --> 00:11:39,919
care about property rights.

380
00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:41,389
To me, it looked like straight up

381
00:11:41,390 --> 00:11:42,109
corruption.

382
00:11:42,110 --> 00:11:43,579
Robin Rather is a local

383
00:11:43,580 --> 00:11:45,349
environmentalist. She joined S.O.S.

384
00:11:45,350 --> 00:11:47,509
in '93 and was eventually

385
00:11:47,510 --> 00:11:48,649
named chair.

386
00:11:48,650 --> 00:11:50,719
And she was in charge of lobbying

387
00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:52,129
at the Capitol with the group's

388
00:11:52,130 --> 00:11:53,239
lawyer, Bill Bunch.

389
00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:55,159
There were billions of dollars

390
00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:56,719
to the development community at

391
00:11:56,720 --> 00:11:57,589
stake.

392
00:11:57,590 --> 00:11:59,689
They spared no expense on those

393
00:11:59,690 --> 00:12:02,119
lobbying efforts.

394
00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:03,559
They were very, very skilled.

395
00:12:03,560 --> 00:12:04,879
They had the best lobbyists in the

396
00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:05,880
world doing it.

397
00:12:06,680 --> 00:12:08,539
You know, you had me and

398
00:12:08,540 --> 00:12:10,349
Bill Bunch up there, we were not

399
00:12:10,350 --> 00:12:11,719
professional lobbyists, we're just

400
00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:12,949
trying to lay out the environmental

401
00:12:12,950 --> 00:12:14,719
facts of the situation, and getting

402
00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:16,099
exactly nowhere.

403
00:12:16,100 --> 00:12:18,829
In 1995, there was no filibuster.

404
00:12:18,830 --> 00:12:20,119
There was no veto.

405
00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:21,649
Governor Bush signed a bill to

406
00:12:21,650 --> 00:12:22,549
weaken the S.O.S.

407
00:12:22,550 --> 00:12:23,209
protection.

408
00:12:23,210 --> 00:12:24,139
Except.

409
00:12:24,140 --> 00:12:25,939
Except it was a lot messier than

410
00:12:25,940 --> 00:12:26,389
that.

411
00:12:26,390 --> 00:12:27,390
Right.

412
00:12:33,869 --> 00:12:34,999
[music] Austin is a summer city, and

413
00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:36,000
Barton Springs eternal ...

414
00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:39,399
Like I said, in 1995, Bush

415
00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:40,809
signed the developer friendly

416
00:12:40,810 --> 00:12:42,789
legislation into law.

417
00:12:42,790 --> 00:12:44,829
But two years later, in the 1997

418
00:12:44,830 --> 00:12:46,599
legislative session, those rules

419
00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:48,579
were mysteriously removed.

420
00:12:48,580 --> 00:12:49,580
Yeah, mysterious.

421
00:12:50,049 --> 00:12:51,459
That forced developers to again

422
00:12:51,460 --> 00:12:52,719
comply with S.O.S.

423
00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:54,459
for all their projects.

424
00:12:54,460 --> 00:12:55,629
But they were also challenging

425
00:12:55,630 --> 00:12:56,979
S.O.S. in court.

426
00:12:56,980 --> 00:12:58,899
So in 1998, the state Supreme

427
00:12:58,900 --> 00:13:00,489
Court upholds the S.O.S.

428
00:13:00,490 --> 00:13:01,179
protections.

429
00:13:01,180 --> 00:13:02,589
With Greg Abbott on the Supreme

430
00:13:02,590 --> 00:13:03,519
Court at the time, yeah.

431
00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:05,109
Meanwhile, the Federal Government

432
00:13:05,110 --> 00:13:06,339
has determined that the Barton

433
00:13:06,340 --> 00:13:08,169
Springs Salamander, which we haven't

434
00:13:08,170 --> 00:13:10,059
even talked about yet, is an

435
00:13:10,060 --> 00:13:11,709
endangered species.

436
00:13:11,710 --> 00:13:13,569
Here's Bill Bunch with S.O.S..

437
00:13:13,570 --> 00:13:15,549
Okay, there's this federal dictate

438
00:13:15,550 --> 00:13:17,919
now that we protect the water.

439
00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:19,539
That could further complicate

440
00:13:19,540 --> 00:13:20,349
building projects.

441
00:13:20,350 --> 00:13:22,539
But in 1999,

442
00:13:22,540 --> 00:13:24,219
the legislature comes back and

443
00:13:24,220 --> 00:13:26,139
passes developer friendly laws

444
00:13:26,140 --> 00:13:26,829
again.

445
00:13:26,830 --> 00:13:28,689
And somewhere in all of this, Gary

446
00:13:28,690 --> 00:13:31,059
Bradley challenges Bill Bunch

447
00:13:31,060 --> 00:13:31,959
to a fistfight.

448
00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:33,489
I don't need Bill Bunch from

449
00:13:33,490 --> 00:13:35,379
Berkeley to tell me what to do in

450
00:13:35,380 --> 00:13:36,249
Texas.

451
00:13:36,250 --> 00:13:37,179
I really don't.

452
00:13:37,180 --> 00:13:39,009
It just seemed like this

453
00:13:39,010 --> 00:13:41,319
was a war that was never

454
00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:42,490
going to end.

455
00:13:52,770 --> 00:13:52,857
[music] Barton Springs Eternal.
Barton Springs Eternal. Barton
Springs

456
00:13:52,858 --> 00:13:52,862
Eternal. Barton Springs Eternal ...

457
00:13:52,863 --> 00:13:55,039
But as it kept going, Robin Rather,

458
00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:56,869
with S.O.S., says

459
00:13:56,870 --> 00:13:58,879
she started to get the feeling ...

460
00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:00,019
We were losing badly.

461
00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:02,090
We were losing badly.

462
00:14:07,719 --> 00:14:07,897
[music]

463
00:14:07,898 --> 00:14:08,898
Enter Kirk Watson.

464
00:14:10,420 --> 00:14:12,549
Can you introduce yourself to me?

465
00:14:12,550 --> 00:14:13,779
Tell me your name.

466
00:14:13,780 --> 00:14:15,219
Where's a bumper sticker?

467
00:14:16,390 --> 00:14:17,589
I usually have a bumper sticker

468
00:14:17,590 --> 00:14:18,669
around where I can do that.

469
00:14:18,670 --> 00:14:21,189
No, my name's Kirk Watson.

470
00:14:21,190 --> 00:14:23,289
I'm the newly elected

471
00:14:23,290 --> 00:14:24,789
mayor of Austin, Texas.

472
00:14:24,790 --> 00:14:25,719
That's right.

473
00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:27,669
Austin Mayor Kirk Watson.

474
00:14:27,670 --> 00:14:29,409
Yes. He's currently the city's

475
00:14:29,410 --> 00:14:31,479
mayor, but he was also elected

476
00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:33,759
mayor in 1997.

477
00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:35,829
And Watson says when he decided

478
00:14:35,830 --> 00:14:37,839
to run the first time, he knew

479
00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:39,459
he'd have to deal with something he

480
00:14:39,460 --> 00:14:41,409
calls aquifer

481
00:14:41,410 --> 00:14:42,849
politics.

482
00:14:42,850 --> 00:14:45,339
Aquifer politics

483
00:14:45,340 --> 00:14:47,499
dominated a great

484
00:14:47,500 --> 00:14:49,179
deal of the politics of this

485
00:14:49,180 --> 00:14:51,129
community for a long

486
00:14:51,130 --> 00:14:52,689
time. And I can even make an

487
00:14:52,690 --> 00:14:54,729
argument in some instances, it

488
00:14:54,730 --> 00:14:55,730
still

489
00:14:56,680 --> 00:14:57,819
is part of it.

490
00:14:57,820 --> 00:14:59,379
We mentioned in the last episode

491
00:14:59,380 --> 00:15:01,181
that after several wins, the Save

492
00:15:01,182 --> 00:15:03,069
Our Springs organization had amassed

493
00:15:03,070 --> 00:15:04,899
a ton of political support in

494
00:15:04,900 --> 00:15:06,879
Austin, even if that wasn't true

495
00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:08,319
at the state level.

496
00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:09,639
And on the other side, you had

497
00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:11,679
well-funded business and real estate

498
00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:12,279
interests.

499
00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:14,229
Watson says it was like Austin had

500
00:15:14,230 --> 00:15:16,149
its very own two party

501
00:15:16,150 --> 00:15:16,839
system.

502
00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:18,999
It was as nasty as any

503
00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:20,411
two party system you can think of,

504
00:15:20,412 --> 00:15:21,849
even right now.

505
00:15:21,850 --> 00:15:23,769
It was environmentalist versus

506
00:15:23,770 --> 00:15:24,879
developers.

507
00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:26,949
It was the Chamber

508
00:15:26,950 --> 00:15:29,139
of Commerce versus the Sierra Club.

509
00:15:29,140 --> 00:15:30,909
It was the Save our Springs Alliance

510
00:15:30,910 --> 00:15:32,649
versus the Real Estate Council.

511
00:15:32,650 --> 00:15:34,599
Watson saw all this bad blood as

512
00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:36,289
holding the city back.

513
00:15:36,290 --> 00:15:38,139
S.O.S. had consumed Austin

514
00:15:38,140 --> 00:15:39,849
politics and nothing else could

515
00:15:39,850 --> 00:15:41,769
really get any oxygen.

516
00:15:41,770 --> 00:15:43,779
But what was it holding the city

517
00:15:43,780 --> 00:15:44,780
back from?

518
00:15:46,390 --> 00:15:48,249
In the nineties, across the country,

519
00:15:48,250 --> 00:15:49,929
cities were in trouble.

520
00:15:49,930 --> 00:15:51,519
People had moved out to the suburbs,

521
00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:53,199
which was easier because we had

522
00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:55,029
built highways, blue collar

523
00:15:55,030 --> 00:15:56,739
jobs, manufacturing jobs.

524
00:15:56,740 --> 00:15:58,569
These were also moving out of cities

525
00:15:58,570 --> 00:16:00,909
and out of the country entirely.

526
00:16:00,910 --> 00:16:02,259
Cities that had relied on this kind

527
00:16:02,260 --> 00:16:04,239
of economy were losing jobs

528
00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:05,679
and losing people.

529
00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:07,809
Other cities were trying to avoid

530
00:16:07,810 --> 00:16:10,029
this by becoming the capitals

531
00:16:10,030 --> 00:16:12,369
of the new tech economy.

532
00:16:12,370 --> 00:16:14,259
You know, this is the dot com

533
00:16:14,260 --> 00:16:15,219
boom at this time.

534
00:16:15,220 --> 00:16:17,049
Like nobody's really making

535
00:16:17,050 --> 00:16:17,829
things anymore.

536
00:16:17,830 --> 00:16:18,789
I mean, I guess people are making

537
00:16:18,790 --> 00:16:19,659
websites like, I don't know,

538
00:16:19,660 --> 00:16:21,639
Pets.com or something,

539
00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:23,679
but the idea was that your city

540
00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:25,569
could grow by becoming a new

541
00:16:25,570 --> 00:16:28,209
capital of this service-oriented

542
00:16:28,210 --> 00:16:29,199
tech economy.

543
00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:30,789
Basically, the idea was you were

544
00:16:30,790 --> 00:16:32,379
either going to be an abandoned

545
00:16:32,380 --> 00:16:34,569
factory town or Silicon

546
00:16:34,570 --> 00:16:35,499
Valley.

547
00:16:35,500 --> 00:16:37,389
So Kirk Watson and the

548
00:16:37,390 --> 00:16:39,729
City of Austin started actively

549
00:16:39,730 --> 00:16:41,829
recruiting industries to come here.

550
00:16:41,830 --> 00:16:43,779
But when companies would show up to

551
00:16:43,780 --> 00:16:45,639
check out Austin, they'd

552
00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:46,989
have to contend with S.O.S..

553
00:16:46,990 --> 00:16:48,339
S.O.S. would meet them at the

554
00:16:48,340 --> 00:16:49,340
airport. Metaphorically,

555
00:16:50,290 --> 00:16:51,969
it's a, "love to have you and your

556
00:16:51,970 --> 00:16:53,889
jobs. Do not move over the

557
00:16:53,890 --> 00:16:54,669
aquifer."

558
00:16:54,670 --> 00:16:55,719
And if they did.

559
00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:57,849
We fought like dogs.

560
00:16:57,850 --> 00:16:59,739
So Watson's challenge, as he saw

561
00:16:59,740 --> 00:17:01,689
it, was to grow Austin's

562
00:17:01,690 --> 00:17:04,029
economy without pissing off S.O.S..

563
00:17:04,030 --> 00:17:05,949
On one side, developers wanted

564
00:17:05,950 --> 00:17:07,419
to build. All these people are

565
00:17:07,420 --> 00:17:09,068
moving here and they need houses.

566
00:17:09,069 --> 00:17:10,659
But environmentalists don't want

567
00:17:10,660 --> 00:17:12,729
them to build, at least in this

568
00:17:12,730 --> 00:17:14,318
part of town where Barton Springs

569
00:17:14,319 --> 00:17:16,449
is. So how do you square

570
00:17:16,450 --> 00:17:17,450
that circle?

571
00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:20,449
What he did was introduce a concept

572
00:17:20,450 --> 00:17:21,799
called Smart Growth.

573
00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:22,459
Smart Growth.

574
00:17:22,460 --> 00:17:22,528
Smart Growth

575
00:17:22,529 --> 00:17:23,529
Smart Growth.

576
00:17:23,708 --> 00:17:24,708
Smart Growth.

577
00:17:24,770 --> 00:17:25,368
Smart Growth.

578
00:17:25,369 --> 00:17:26,369
Smart Growth.

579
00:17:27,140 --> 00:17:28,939
It was the everybody wins strategy.

580
00:17:28,940 --> 00:17:29,899
That's what Smart Growth was

581
00:17:29,900 --> 00:17:30,799
supposed to be.

582
00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:32,749
So, Audrey, what is

583
00:17:32,750 --> 00:17:33,289
Smart Growth?

584
00:17:33,290 --> 00:17:35,179
Well, Smart Growth is really

585
00:17:35,180 --> 00:17:37,009
just a marketing term, but

586
00:17:37,010 --> 00:17:38,569
it means building cities in a way

587
00:17:38,570 --> 00:17:40,489
that, well, some people say

588
00:17:40,490 --> 00:17:41,449
is smart.

589
00:17:41,450 --> 00:17:42,979
That means no longer building

590
00:17:42,980 --> 00:17:44,839
outward, but instead building

591
00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:46,529
inward and upward.

592
00:17:46,530 --> 00:17:48,499
So putting businesses and houses

593
00:17:48,500 --> 00:17:49,549
closer together.

594
00:17:49,550 --> 00:17:50,959
Maybe you live on top of a grocery

595
00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:52,699
store. You can you can walk or bike

596
00:17:52,700 --> 00:17:54,589
to work. You can take a bus

597
00:17:54,590 --> 00:17:56,449
or a subway, wherever

598
00:17:56,450 --> 00:17:57,109
you want to go.

599
00:17:57,110 --> 00:17:58,639
I mean, let's just cut to the chase.

600
00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:00,379
We're talking about cities like New

601
00:18:00,380 --> 00:18:02,359
York, Philadelphia,

602
00:18:02,360 --> 00:18:03,439
Boston.

603
00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:05,149
London, Paris, Madrid.

604
00:18:05,150 --> 00:18:07,309
Mexico City, Bogota.

605
00:18:07,310 --> 00:18:09,139
Anyway, supporters say this

606
00:18:09,140 --> 00:18:10,939
is, quote, smart for several

607
00:18:10,940 --> 00:18:11,779
reasons.

608
00:18:11,780 --> 00:18:13,609
One, building new housing in a

609
00:18:13,610 --> 00:18:15,469
city cuts down on having to have a

610
00:18:15,470 --> 00:18:17,569
car and drive everywhere, which

611
00:18:17,570 --> 00:18:19,219
is better for the environment.

612
00:18:19,220 --> 00:18:20,869
There's this great news story from

613
00:18:20,870 --> 00:18:22,519
Austin in the late nineties where

614
00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:24,079
the reporter explains this thinking.

615
00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:25,939
She's standing on the side

616
00:18:25,940 --> 00:18:28,189
of a highway holding a donut

617
00:18:28,190 --> 00:18:28,789
in her hand.

618
00:18:28,790 --> 00:18:30,649
It's got pink frosting, just

619
00:18:30,650 --> 00:18:32,059
so you have the full image.

620
00:18:32,060 --> 00:18:33,529
The idea is to stop what's already

621
00:18:33,530 --> 00:18:35,179
happened in some cities, it's called

622
00:18:35,180 --> 00:18:36,679
the donut effect, where the center

623
00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:38,599
city literally hollows out and

624
00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:40,055
all the growth goes to the outer rim

625
00:18:40,056 --> 00:18:40,939
of the city ...

626
00:18:40,940 --> 00:18:42,949
Building this way also uses

627
00:18:42,950 --> 00:18:44,899
up fewer city resources.

628
00:18:44,900 --> 00:18:45,771
Cities don't have to keep building,

629
00:18:45,772 --> 00:18:48,259
I don't know, pipes for water

630
00:18:48,260 --> 00:18:50,599
or roads to get to new development

631
00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:51,919
on the edges of town.

632
00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:53,299
And it also encourages building

633
00:18:53,300 --> 00:18:54,679
smaller homes, townhomes,

634
00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:56,329
apartments. These are typically

635
00:18:56,330 --> 00:18:58,189
cheaper than a house with a lawn.

636
00:18:58,190 --> 00:19:00,289
What I was saying at the time

637
00:19:00,290 --> 00:19:02,209
and what we were saying at

638
00:19:02,210 --> 00:19:04,189
City Hall was, "We're

639
00:19:04,190 --> 00:19:05,570
growing folks."

640
00:19:05,571 --> 00:19:07,579
Again, this is then-mayor

641
00:19:07,580 --> 00:19:09,409
and now-mayor, Kirk Watson.

642
00:19:09,410 --> 00:19:12,019
How do we grow in a way that's smart

643
00:19:12,020 --> 00:19:13,909
so that we don't do something

644
00:19:13,910 --> 00:19:15,739
dumb to this place

645
00:19:15,740 --> 00:19:16,699
we love?

646
00:19:16,700 --> 00:19:18,889
And Watson's plan was to begin

647
00:19:18,890 --> 00:19:20,479
with downtown Austin.

648
00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:21,979
Think of it as the center of that

649
00:19:21,980 --> 00:19:22,759
donut.

650
00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:24,409
If you walk around downtown Austin

651
00:19:24,410 --> 00:19:25,789
today, there's a lot going on,

652
00:19:25,790 --> 00:19:26,629
right? There are restaurants,

653
00:19:26,630 --> 00:19:28,219
offices, a couple of music venues.

654
00:19:28,220 --> 00:19:30,259
Back in the 1990s, it wasn't

655
00:19:30,260 --> 00:19:30,799
like that.

656
00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:32,239
Yeah, people have described it to me

657
00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:33,619
as like a ghost town.

658
00:19:33,620 --> 00:19:36,289
Downtown rolled up about five, 5:30.

659
00:19:36,290 --> 00:19:38,149
And the economy in downtown

660
00:19:38,150 --> 00:19:39,769
was the old traditional economy of

661
00:19:39,770 --> 00:19:41,779
lawyers, real estate

662
00:19:41,780 --> 00:19:42,829
and banking.

663
00:19:42,830 --> 00:19:44,329
Some people liked it that way.

664
00:19:44,330 --> 00:19:45,709
You could roll up there, you could

665
00:19:45,710 --> 00:19:47,659
park all day for free, you

666
00:19:47,660 --> 00:19:48,889
could walk around.

667
00:19:48,890 --> 00:19:50,449
But there weren't big, huge

668
00:19:50,450 --> 00:19:52,189
buildings. It didn't even feel like

669
00:19:52,190 --> 00:19:53,419
a downtown. It felt like a small

670
00:19:53,420 --> 00:19:56,209
town, like, Main Street.

671
00:19:56,210 --> 00:19:58,099
Anyway, once he got into office,

672
00:19:58,100 --> 00:19:59,689
Watson decided he needed to bring

673
00:19:59,690 --> 00:20:01,369
people back downtown.

674
00:20:01,370 --> 00:20:02,659
He would get companies to open

675
00:20:02,660 --> 00:20:04,489
offices there and get developers

676
00:20:04,490 --> 00:20:06,349
to build housing downtown and

677
00:20:06,350 --> 00:20:07,279
nearby.

678
00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:09,319
But to do this, he needed

679
00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:11,509
buy-in from environmentalists

680
00:20:11,510 --> 00:20:12,619
and developers.

681
00:20:12,620 --> 00:20:15,259
He needed to broker peace.

682
00:20:15,260 --> 00:20:17,659
What he did was put dollars

683
00:20:17,660 --> 00:20:18,660
on the table.

684
00:20:22,650 --> 00:20:24,230
More after the break.

685
00:20:28,260 --> 00:20:30,269
We're stuck because City Hall just

686
00:20:30,270 --> 00:20:31,379
reacts.

687
00:20:31,380 --> 00:20:32,759
It doesn't plan ahead ...

688
00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:34,649
Kirk Watson ran for mayor the first

689
00:20:34,650 --> 00:20:36,899
time in 1997.

690
00:20:36,900 --> 00:20:39,509
This is a TV ad for his campaign.

691
00:20:39,510 --> 00:20:40,949
And he ran on the idea that we had

692
00:20:40,950 --> 00:20:42,869
to get control of how the city

693
00:20:42,870 --> 00:20:43,889
was growing.

694
00:20:43,890 --> 00:20:45,479
... And create a Greenbelt plan to

695
00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:47,249
protect the lakes and hills around

696
00:20:47,250 --> 00:20:47,699
Austin.

697
00:20:47,700 --> 00:20:48,899
Instead of just building on the

698
00:20:48,900 --> 00:20:50,759
outer rings of Austin, we needed

699
00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:52,889
to put new housing and offices

700
00:20:52,890 --> 00:20:54,299
in the center of the city.

701
00:20:54,300 --> 00:20:56,219
But like we said, to do

702
00:20:56,220 --> 00:20:58,379
that, he had to make peace

703
00:20:58,380 --> 00:20:59,546
between the West Side

704
00:20:59,547 --> 00:21:01,889
environmentalists and the builders.

705
00:21:01,890 --> 00:21:03,749
The city was split

706
00:21:03,750 --> 00:21:05,429
very badly.

707
00:21:05,430 --> 00:21:08,039
And I actually ran saying,

708
00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:09,629
"I'm going to try to bring this city

709
00:21:09,630 --> 00:21:11,819
together. We've got to stop this."

710
00:21:11,820 --> 00:21:13,049
So the two camps started getting

711
00:21:13,050 --> 00:21:15,179
together, like real estate people,

712
00:21:15,180 --> 00:21:16,949
people from the Chamber of Commerce

713
00:21:16,950 --> 00:21:18,959
and the Barton Springs Defenders.

714
00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:20,189
And they had meetings.

715
00:21:20,190 --> 00:21:21,809
They got together for drinks.

716
00:21:21,810 --> 00:21:22,949
When you think about it, they

717
00:21:22,950 --> 00:21:24,779
finally did exactly what

718
00:21:24,780 --> 00:21:26,609
Senator Barrientos dreamed

719
00:21:26,610 --> 00:21:28,559
of during that filibuster that

720
00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:29,699
we heard about at the beginning of

721
00:21:29,700 --> 00:21:30,700
this episode.

722
00:21:31,383 --> 00:21:32,609
... Environmentalists, developers,

723
00:21:32,610 --> 00:21:34,469
council members sat down at a

724
00:21:34,470 --> 00:21:35,900
table and not gotten up ...

725
00:21:37,380 --> 00:21:39,749
But it wasn't so easy.

726
00:21:39,750 --> 00:21:41,429
It was ridiculously awkward.

727
00:21:41,430 --> 00:21:43,349
I mean, in some cases, these people

728
00:21:43,350 --> 00:21:45,329
had spent like more than ten

729
00:21:45,330 --> 00:21:47,309
years hating each

730
00:21:47,310 --> 00:21:47,909
other.

731
00:21:47,910 --> 00:21:50,729
Here we are trying to, you know,

732
00:21:50,730 --> 00:21:52,169
play nice, would be the way I would

733
00:21:52,170 --> 00:21:54,449
say it. So we go have beverages.

734
00:21:54,450 --> 00:21:55,859
People are trying to make small

735
00:21:55,860 --> 00:21:57,869
talk. People are trying

736
00:21:57,870 --> 00:21:59,789
to get past the fact that they've

737
00:21:59,790 --> 00:22:00,479
been fighting.

738
00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:02,789
These were sworn enemies.

739
00:22:02,790 --> 00:22:04,349
And it made some of them physically

740
00:22:04,350 --> 00:22:06,239
ill to start rubbing shoulders

741
00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:07,289
with the other side.

742
00:22:07,290 --> 00:22:08,699
My good friend and colleague, Bill

743
00:22:08,700 --> 00:22:10,559
Bunch, when we were sitting

744
00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:11,819
down with those guys, he would

745
00:22:11,820 --> 00:22:13,019
literally puke.

746
00:22:13,020 --> 00:22:14,099
I'm not talking about just

747
00:22:14,100 --> 00:22:15,869
metaphorically. He would literally

748
00:22:15,870 --> 00:22:17,039
be throwing up.

749
00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:18,989
Bill did not confirm or deny

750
00:22:18,990 --> 00:22:20,579
this when we emailed him.

751
00:22:22,950 --> 00:22:24,599
Meeting over drinks was one thing,

752
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:26,309
but the next step was to get these

753
00:22:26,310 --> 00:22:28,469
groups to join forces to support

754
00:22:28,470 --> 00:22:30,179
a new city policy.

755
00:22:30,180 --> 00:22:32,219
Basically, Watson decided

756
00:22:32,220 --> 00:22:34,229
to dangle money in front

757
00:22:34,230 --> 00:22:36,269
of both these two groups for things

758
00:22:36,270 --> 00:22:37,529
that they each wanted.

759
00:22:37,530 --> 00:22:38,849
For the business people, I mean,

760
00:22:38,850 --> 00:22:40,019
they wanted to make money, right?

761
00:22:40,020 --> 00:22:41,309
And they wanted to keep developing.

762
00:22:41,310 --> 00:22:43,229
So why not a bigger

763
00:22:43,230 --> 00:22:44,609
convention center, bringing

764
00:22:44,610 --> 00:22:46,079
thousands of visitors to town and

765
00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:47,939
millions, millions of dollars

766
00:22:47,940 --> 00:22:48,779
to the city.

767
00:22:48,780 --> 00:22:49,780
And the West Side environmentalists
wanted

768
00:22:50,460 --> 00:22:52,319
land to be protected, to

769
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:53,879
ensure that very little would be

770
00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:55,529
built over the aquifer.

771
00:22:55,530 --> 00:22:57,359
People had said for years, "If

772
00:22:57,360 --> 00:22:59,279
you're going to regulate

773
00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:01,889
the land that strictly,

774
00:23:01,890 --> 00:23:04,349
you oughtta buy it," they would say.

775
00:23:04,350 --> 00:23:06,389
And my response was,

776
00:23:06,390 --> 00:23:08,009
you know, that makes some sense.

777
00:23:08,010 --> 00:23:09,869
So Watson hatched

778
00:23:09,870 --> 00:23:11,039
a plan.

779
00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:13,049
They put bonds on a ballot

780
00:23:13,050 --> 00:23:14,549
and asked the public to pay for

781
00:23:14,550 --> 00:23:15,779
these things.

782
00:23:15,780 --> 00:23:17,429
But in order to get both, the

783
00:23:17,430 --> 00:23:19,229
environmentalists and the business

784
00:23:19,230 --> 00:23:21,539
interests would have to come

785
00:23:21,540 --> 00:23:22,409
together.

786
00:23:22,410 --> 00:23:24,239
And as Robin remembers it, Watson

787
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:26,789
engineered this in a pretty sneaky

788
00:23:26,790 --> 00:23:27,629
way.

789
00:23:27,630 --> 00:23:29,909
He told the local paper that

790
00:23:29,910 --> 00:23:31,079
basically it was a done deal, right?

791
00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:32,189
The environmentalists and the real

792
00:23:32,190 --> 00:23:34,049
estate guys had already agreed

793
00:23:34,050 --> 00:23:35,699
they were coming together over this

794
00:23:35,700 --> 00:23:36,449
bond issue.

795
00:23:36,450 --> 00:23:38,129
And I remember Gary Valdez was the

796
00:23:38,130 --> 00:23:40,049
chair of the Austin Chamber, and

797
00:23:40,050 --> 00:23:41,609
he called me

798
00:23:41,610 --> 00:23:41,763
[dial tone] This is Gary.

799
00:23:41,764 --> 00:23:43,649
He was like, "Did you read today's

800
00:23:43,650 --> 00:23:44,489
paper?" I was like, "Yeah, I'm

801
00:23:44,490 --> 00:23:45,509
sitting right here." He's like, "Did

802
00:23:45,510 --> 00:23:47,399
you know this?" I was like, "I

803
00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:48,929
knew nothing." [phone dial] And we

804
00:23:48,930 --> 00:23:50,576
conference called the head of RECA.

805
00:23:50,577 --> 00:23:51,869
That's the Real Estate Council of

806
00:23:51,870 --> 00:23:52,409
Austin.

807
00:23:52,410 --> 00:23:53,909
Jerry Weintraub, "Weintraub, did you

808
00:23:53,910 --> 00:23:55,169
know about this? What are we going

809
00:23:55,170 --> 00:23:56,999
to do? It's in the paper.

810
00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:58,049
He's announced it.

811
00:23:58,050 --> 00:23:59,879
He said we're gonna work together."

812
00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:01,349
I asked Watson about this.

813
00:24:02,870 --> 00:24:04,021
I thought they'd agreed.

814
00:24:04,022 --> 00:24:05,022
[laughter]

815
00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:10,289
Either way, by late March

816
00:24:10,290 --> 00:24:12,239
1998, Robin and Gary,

817
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:14,369
S.O.S. and the Chamber of Commerce

818
00:24:14,370 --> 00:24:16,529
were at a press conference together,

819
00:24:16,530 --> 00:24:18,029
announcing their support for these

820
00:24:18,030 --> 00:24:18,719
bonds.

821
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:20,759
Old political enemies come together

822
00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:22,619
on common ground today over one of

823
00:24:22,620 --> 00:24:24,449
the most controversial issues in

824
00:24:24,450 --> 00:24:24,869
Austin ...

825
00:24:24,870 --> 00:24:25,859
We had a press conference at the

826
00:24:25,860 --> 00:24:27,929
gazebo, right there on the water,

827
00:24:27,930 --> 00:24:29,849
and Gary and Robin

828
00:24:29,850 --> 00:24:31,889
were there, and I talked to them

829
00:24:31,890 --> 00:24:34,109
both many times.

830
00:24:34,110 --> 00:24:35,939
But I must admit,

831
00:24:35,940 --> 00:24:37,799
while I felt like we

832
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:39,509
had made great progress and had

833
00:24:39,510 --> 00:24:41,429
gotten to the point where there

834
00:24:41,430 --> 00:24:44,459
was agreement conceptually

835
00:24:44,460 --> 00:24:46,469
such that I felt

836
00:24:46,470 --> 00:24:47,399
comfortable having a press

837
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:49,379
conference with them, I must

838
00:24:49,380 --> 00:24:51,359
admit that I was worried about what

839
00:24:51,360 --> 00:24:52,799
they might say.

840
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:54,749
I was like, "$60 million,

841
00:24:54,750 --> 00:24:56,429
guys. Open space." And they were

842
00:24:56,430 --> 00:24:58,379
like, "Convention center!"

843
00:24:58,380 --> 00:25:00,719
And, you know, it worked.

844
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:02,249
And you could see it as a genius

845
00:25:02,250 --> 00:25:03,509
political move.

846
00:25:03,510 --> 00:25:05,069
Two months later, voters went to the

847
00:25:05,070 --> 00:25:07,169
polls and passed the bonds,

848
00:25:07,170 --> 00:25:08,879
the S.O.S. bond, the one to buy all

849
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:10,169
that land in the Barton Springs

850
00:25:10,170 --> 00:25:12,119
watershed actually got the

851
00:25:12,120 --> 00:25:13,259
least support.

852
00:25:13,260 --> 00:25:15,269
It passed, but barely,

853
00:25:15,270 --> 00:25:17,459
with 53% of the vote.

854
00:25:17,460 --> 00:25:18,779
Convention Center did a little

855
00:25:18,780 --> 00:25:21,119
better, with 58%

856
00:25:21,120 --> 00:25:23,009
of people voting in favor.

857
00:25:23,010 --> 00:25:25,469
But what it shows is that each side

858
00:25:25,470 --> 00:25:26,549
needed the other one.

859
00:25:26,550 --> 00:25:28,769
If they hadn't told their people

860
00:25:28,770 --> 00:25:30,869
to support their opponents

861
00:25:30,870 --> 00:25:33,059
projects, neither would have passed.

862
00:25:33,060 --> 00:25:34,349
But the bonds were just the

863
00:25:34,350 --> 00:25:36,089
beginning. These were being pitched

864
00:25:36,090 --> 00:25:37,799
as the start of that thing we talked

865
00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:39,629
about earlier, Smart Growth.

866
00:25:39,630 --> 00:25:41,519
a vision for how Austin was going

867
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:42,059
to grow.

868
00:25:42,060 --> 00:25:44,699
And by 1999, a year after

869
00:25:44,700 --> 00:25:47,039
the Bonds passed, S.O.S.

870
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:48,869
was saying, "We're friends now

871
00:25:48,870 --> 00:25:50,879
and we're all in on

872
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:53,039
this Smart Growth thing." Here's

873
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:54,869
developer Gary Bradley again.

874
00:25:54,870 --> 00:25:55,679
This is how he put it.

875
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:57,809
The deal was simple, you know,

876
00:25:57,810 --> 00:25:59,069
Watson's smart.

877
00:25:59,070 --> 00:26:00,269
"Okay, S.O.S., you can have

878
00:26:00,270 --> 00:26:02,099
everything southwest, but you can't

879
00:26:02,100 --> 00:26:03,154
shut down the whole damn town, okay?

880
00:26:04,530 --> 00:26:06,029
So leave me downtown and leave me

881
00:26:06,030 --> 00:26:07,030
North Austin.

882
00:26:07,350 --> 00:26:08,350
That's the deal."

883
00:26:09,330 --> 00:26:11,279
So city leaders divided Austin into

884
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:13,169
two basic zones, and they gave

885
00:26:13,170 --> 00:26:14,129
them names.

886
00:26:14,130 --> 00:26:15,809
One was called the Drinking Water

887
00:26:15,810 --> 00:26:17,249
Protection Zone.

888
00:26:17,250 --> 00:26:19,169
This was land basically just west

889
00:26:19,170 --> 00:26:19,979
of Mopac.

890
00:26:19,980 --> 00:26:21,419
Land where you couldn't really

891
00:26:21,420 --> 00:26:23,369
build, or it was really hard

892
00:26:23,370 --> 00:26:24,239
to build.

893
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:25,679
And then you had what they called

894
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:27,539
the "desired development

895
00:26:27,540 --> 00:26:29,159
zone," which is like pretty much

896
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:30,989
anywhere east of Mopac,

897
00:26:30,990 --> 00:26:32,969
right? This is land not only

898
00:26:32,970 --> 00:26:34,859
where you could build, but where

899
00:26:34,860 --> 00:26:36,689
you were encouraged to build, where

900
00:26:36,690 --> 00:26:38,639
you'd literally be rewarded for

901
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:39,209
building.

902
00:26:39,210 --> 00:26:40,859
And if you look at this map of these

903
00:26:40,860 --> 00:26:42,869
zones, the blueprint for

904
00:26:42,870 --> 00:26:44,369
Smart Growth, it's like looking into

905
00:26:44,370 --> 00:26:46,769
the future of Austin, prophecy

906
00:26:46,770 --> 00:26:48,629
of what would happen in the city in

907
00:26:48,630 --> 00:26:49,709
the coming years.

908
00:26:49,710 --> 00:26:51,659
Yeah. West Austin is is

909
00:26:51,660 --> 00:26:53,339
pretty much preserved in amber,

910
00:26:53,340 --> 00:26:55,289
right? And all the growth that's

911
00:26:55,290 --> 00:26:57,149
happening happens on the

912
00:26:57,150 --> 00:26:57,839
East Side.

913
00:26:57,840 --> 00:26:59,639
But there was a big problem.

914
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:00,749
One that would have huge

915
00:27:00,750 --> 00:27:02,849
consequences for the people already

916
00:27:02,850 --> 00:27:04,199
living in East Austin.

917
00:27:05,910 --> 00:27:07,949
At the time, no one understood

918
00:27:07,950 --> 00:27:09,659
about gentrification.

919
00:27:09,660 --> 00:27:11,969
I don't think people fully realize

920
00:27:11,970 --> 00:27:13,589
the economic burden that this

921
00:27:13,590 --> 00:27:14,909
development would have on the people

922
00:27:14,910 --> 00:27:16,289
of Central and East Austin.

923
00:27:16,290 --> 00:27:18,029
Joshua Long is a professor of

924
00:27:18,030 --> 00:27:19,199
environmental studies at

925
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:20,729
Southwestern University in

926
00:27:20,730 --> 00:27:21,569
Georgetown.

927
00:27:21,570 --> 00:27:23,249
We heard from him in the second

928
00:27:23,250 --> 00:27:25,079
episode of this podcast,

929
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,029
and he studied the impacts of

930
00:27:27,030 --> 00:27:28,469
Smart Growth in Austin.

931
00:27:28,470 --> 00:27:30,299
Joshua says the city campaigned

932
00:27:30,300 --> 00:27:31,949
to get people to move downtown, fill

933
00:27:31,950 --> 00:27:33,989
in that donut hole or,

934
00:27:33,990 --> 00:27:35,189
you know, the "desired development

935
00:27:35,190 --> 00:27:36,989
zone." And it worked.

936
00:27:36,990 --> 00:27:38,849
But these people also started

937
00:27:38,850 --> 00:27:40,139
moving to East Austin.

938
00:27:40,140 --> 00:27:41,999
And remember, many of them

939
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:43,739
were working for, like, '90s tech

940
00:27:43,740 --> 00:27:45,299
companies, and so they had more

941
00:27:45,300 --> 00:27:45,869
money.

942
00:27:45,870 --> 00:27:47,279
You get that influx of money.

943
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:48,719
You get changes in demographics.

944
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:50,129
You get changes in political

945
00:27:50,130 --> 00:27:50,849
perspective.

946
00:27:50,850 --> 00:27:51,850
Between 2000 and 2010,

947
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:54,689
the median household income in one

948
00:27:54,690 --> 00:27:56,729
East Austin zip code more than

949
00:27:56,730 --> 00:27:59,399
doubled, incomes doubled.

950
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:01,199
This was new people moving in with

951
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:02,399
big paychecks.

952
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:03,869
This was not existing residents

953
00:28:03,870 --> 00:28:05,549
getting huge raises.

954
00:28:05,550 --> 00:28:07,019
And it was development, not for

955
00:28:07,020 --> 00:28:08,999
them, it was development for

956
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:11,039
future growth, which led

957
00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:12,539
almost immediately to

958
00:28:12,540 --> 00:28:13,559
gentrification.

959
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:15,719
Gentrification is when wealthier,

960
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:17,579
often whiter people move into

961
00:28:17,580 --> 00:28:19,079
a neighborhood. And this same

962
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:21,029
decade, East Austin, south

963
00:28:21,030 --> 00:28:23,009
of E. 11th Street, became

964
00:28:23,010 --> 00:28:25,169
significantly whiter, about 20%

965
00:28:25,170 --> 00:28:25,799
whiter.

966
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:27,569
Joshua says the ideas around

967
00:28:27,570 --> 00:28:29,279
Smart Growth are good on paper.

968
00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:31,079
Many U.S. cities are trying to do

969
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:33,179
these things today, build more

970
00:28:33,180 --> 00:28:35,579
and smaller housing closer together,

971
00:28:35,580 --> 00:28:37,079
make it so you don't have to drive

972
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:38,159
everywhere.

973
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:38,829
But ...

974
00:28:38,830 --> 00:28:40,499
If you don't have affordable housing

975
00:28:40,500 --> 00:28:42,389
built into your plan and you don't

976
00:28:42,390 --> 00:28:44,489
have a significant public

977
00:28:44,490 --> 00:28:45,810
transportation plan

978
00:28:46,950 --> 00:28:49,529
put into place for Smart Growth,

979
00:28:49,530 --> 00:28:51,389
what you're going to get is

980
00:28:51,390 --> 00:28:52,649
Smart Growth for the wealthy.

981
00:28:52,650 --> 00:28:53,429
Smart Growth for those who can

982
00:28:53,430 --> 00:28:54,779
afford it.

983
00:28:54,780 --> 00:28:56,009
And that's going to displace

984
00:28:56,010 --> 00:28:57,329
everybody else.

985
00:28:57,330 --> 00:28:58,769
And as more people moved to this

986
00:28:58,770 --> 00:29:01,109
neighborhood, often with more money,

987
00:29:01,110 --> 00:29:02,669
home prices went up.

988
00:29:02,670 --> 00:29:04,529
By the year 2000, home values

989
00:29:04,530 --> 00:29:06,329
rose across the city.

990
00:29:06,330 --> 00:29:07,869
But they were up the most in East

991
00:29:07,870 --> 00:29:08,739
Austin.

992
00:29:08,740 --> 00:29:11,319
That meant taxes were way up, too.

993
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:12,879
And long time black and Hispanic

994
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:14,890
residents started leaving.

995
00:29:17,970 --> 00:29:20,039
So, you know, Robin Rather says she

996
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:22,109
and others didn't really

997
00:29:22,110 --> 00:29:23,249
understand this is going to be a

998
00:29:23,250 --> 00:29:25,349
consequence. But there was

999
00:29:25,350 --> 00:29:26,459
someone who did.

1000
00:29:26,460 --> 00:29:28,679
We saw the tsunami coming.

1001
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:30,509
We saw it. We could see, like,

1002
00:29:30,510 --> 00:29:33,389
"Oh my God, you know,

1003
00:29:33,390 --> 00:29:35,129
they're coming to take the land."

1004
00:29:35,130 --> 00:29:36,839
You remember Susana Almanza.

1005
00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:38,639
She was the East Side activist we

1006
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:40,919
heard from earlier in this episode.

1007
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:42,329
And she says during this time that

1008
00:29:42,330 --> 00:29:43,619
we're talking about, she and her

1009
00:29:43,620 --> 00:29:45,419
group, PODER, were fighting their

1010
00:29:45,420 --> 00:29:47,789
own battles, and in a lot of cases,

1011
00:29:47,790 --> 00:29:48,549
they were winning.

1012
00:29:48,550 --> 00:29:50,339
Yeah, they got the tank farm moved.

1013
00:29:50,340 --> 00:29:52,349
They got the city to commit to

1014
00:29:52,350 --> 00:29:53,622
shutting down the gas power plant in

1015
00:29:53,623 --> 00:29:55,199
the Holly neighborhood.

1016
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:57,089
But one thing she says they were not

1017
00:29:57,090 --> 00:29:59,189
at the table for was the planning

1018
00:29:59,190 --> 00:30:00,209
for Smart Growth.

1019
00:30:00,210 --> 00:30:01,679
If you looked at, when the people

1020
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:03,479
were working on Smart Growth, they

1021
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:05,309
were looking as if East Austin

1022
00:30:05,310 --> 00:30:07,199
was void, as if no one lived on

1023
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:08,039
that land.

1024
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:09,989
So Smart Growth was already saying,

1025
00:30:09,990 --> 00:30:11,519
"This can be over there, that can be

1026
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:13,379
over there. You can do this," as

1027
00:30:13,380 --> 00:30:14,909
if people didn't live there.

1028
00:30:16,470 --> 00:30:17,399
She says this was something her

1029
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:19,199
group, PODER, even talked about at

1030
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:20,549
board meetings. They just decided

1031
00:30:20,550 --> 00:30:22,289
they could not take on both fights

1032
00:30:22,290 --> 00:30:23,249
at the same time.

1033
00:30:23,250 --> 00:30:25,049
I said, "But the next fight is going

1034
00:30:25,050 --> 00:30:26,849
to be gentrification.

1035
00:30:26,850 --> 00:30:28,769
So what do y'all want to do?"

1036
00:30:29,970 --> 00:30:32,729
And they said, "Well,

1037
00:30:32,730 --> 00:30:34,139
we got to clean up the neighborhood

1038
00:30:34,140 --> 00:30:35,879
first. We got to, and then we'll

1039
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:37,619
take on gentrification."

1040
00:30:37,620 --> 00:30:39,539
But by the time they did, it was

1041
00:30:39,540 --> 00:30:40,319
too late.

1042
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:42,149
And so that's the process that

1043
00:30:42,150 --> 00:30:44,009
we're now undertaking.

1044
00:30:44,010 --> 00:30:46,229
Is the whole the biggest issue

1045
00:30:46,230 --> 00:30:47,849
is gentrification.

1046
00:30:47,850 --> 00:30:49,679
And the problem is, is that

1047
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:51,209
it's not just one corporation, two

1048
00:30:51,210 --> 00:30:52,799
corporations or six.

1049
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:54,669
But again, the biggest culprit is

1050
00:30:54,670 --> 00:30:55,769
still the city.

1051
00:30:55,770 --> 00:30:57,659
The City of Austin is still

1052
00:30:57,660 --> 00:31:00,359
the biggest culprit in gentrifying

1053
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:03,059
our communities and displacing

1054
00:31:03,060 --> 00:31:04,499
communities of color.

1055
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:10,559
A lot of the people that supported

1056
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:12,479
Smart Growth don't fully agree.

1057
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:14,729
Well, that's an overly simplistic

1058
00:31:14,730 --> 00:31:15,809
point of view.

1059
00:31:15,810 --> 00:31:17,639
Kirk Watson blames market forces.

1060
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:19,549
I mean, basically capitalism, right?

1061
00:31:19,550 --> 00:31:21,449
As more and more people want to live

1062
00:31:21,450 --> 00:31:23,459
in a neighborhood, and if not enough

1063
00:31:23,460 --> 00:31:25,469
housing is available, the price

1064
00:31:25,470 --> 00:31:26,969
of existing housing goes up.

1065
00:31:26,970 --> 00:31:28,919
Watson says, in some ways, the East

1066
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:30,359
Side environmentalists were almost

1067
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:32,789
victims of their own success.

1068
00:31:32,790 --> 00:31:34,229
They cleaned up their communities,

1069
00:31:34,230 --> 00:31:35,579
kicked out those polluting

1070
00:31:35,580 --> 00:31:37,229
companies, and suddenly their

1071
00:31:37,230 --> 00:31:39,479
neighborhoods close to downtown

1072
00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:41,369
became incredibly valuable

1073
00:31:41,370 --> 00:31:42,659
to everyone else.

1074
00:31:42,660 --> 00:31:44,579
One of the things that occurred

1075
00:31:44,580 --> 00:31:47,039
is it made that land now

1076
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:48,509
more desirable.

1077
00:31:49,980 --> 00:31:52,949
And so the market would say,

1078
00:31:52,950 --> 00:31:55,079
"That land is now more desirable,"

1079
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:57,023
and it changes the whole character

1080
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:00,149
of where people want to live.

1081
00:32:00,150 --> 00:32:01,589
But did anyone anticipate, I mean,

1082
00:32:01,590 --> 00:32:03,299
someone must have anticipated that

1083
00:32:03,300 --> 00:32:05,129
this would affect lower income

1084
00:32:05,130 --> 00:32:06,269
folks currently living there.

1085
00:32:06,270 --> 00:32:07,419
Was that a conversation?

1086
00:32:07,420 --> 00:32:09,359
Not in the way that

1087
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:10,360
you see today,

1088
00:32:11,940 --> 00:32:13,979
because we were working

1089
00:32:13,980 --> 00:32:16,649
very closely with the people,

1090
00:32:16,650 --> 00:32:18,599
with the advocates for those

1091
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:19,859
neighborhoods.

1092
00:32:19,860 --> 00:32:21,929
They were saying to us, "We

1093
00:32:21,930 --> 00:32:23,639
must change the zoning." And of

1094
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:25,529
course, on its face it

1095
00:32:25,530 --> 00:32:26,760
needed to be changed.

1096
00:32:28,310 --> 00:32:30,079
But it had an impact.

1097
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:31,201
And one of the things that's always

1098
00:32:32,660 --> 00:32:34,489
been a trouble with that is

1099
00:32:34,490 --> 00:32:36,439
that the people that fought

1100
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:37,440
so hard to

1101
00:32:39,100 --> 00:32:40,929
make life better

1102
00:32:40,930 --> 00:32:41,930
under those circumstances, they

1103
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:46,019
don't all get, they haven't all had

1104
00:32:46,020 --> 00:32:47,459
the opportunity to enjoy the benefit

1105
00:32:47,460 --> 00:32:48,269
of it.

1106
00:32:48,270 --> 00:32:50,279
And to a point, Susana

1107
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:51,509
kind of agrees.

1108
00:32:51,510 --> 00:32:53,489
East Austinites did make their

1109
00:32:53,490 --> 00:32:55,739
communities cleaner, more desirable

1110
00:32:55,740 --> 00:32:56,729
to outsiders.

1111
00:32:56,730 --> 00:32:58,589
But she says the problem is they

1112
00:32:58,590 --> 00:33:00,389
were not involved in planning what

1113
00:33:00,390 --> 00:33:01,679
came next.

1114
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:02,999
There were no protections or

1115
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:04,739
considerations for the people

1116
00:33:04,740 --> 00:33:06,209
already living there.

1117
00:33:06,210 --> 00:33:07,919
You know, I walk now down my

1118
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:09,959
community and I don't

1119
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:12,869
see my Latino friends.

1120
00:33:12,870 --> 00:33:15,239
I don't see our Latino businesses

1121
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:16,289
anymore.

1122
00:33:16,290 --> 00:33:18,509
You know, I see a lot of

1123
00:33:18,510 --> 00:33:20,369
young, white, more

1124
00:33:20,370 --> 00:33:22,529
upper class, you know, wealthy

1125
00:33:22,530 --> 00:33:24,419
people walking up and

1126
00:33:24,420 --> 00:33:25,739
down the street. And you can just

1127
00:33:25,740 --> 00:33:27,269
talk to any of the elders and

1128
00:33:27,270 --> 00:33:28,709
they'll go like, "I don't know what

1129
00:33:28,710 --> 00:33:30,149
happened. I don't know what

1130
00:33:30,150 --> 00:33:31,679
happened," but we all know what

1131
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:32,549
happened.

1132
00:33:32,550 --> 00:33:34,109
While Watson disagrees with this

1133
00:33:34,110 --> 00:33:35,939
characterization, some of the

1134
00:33:35,940 --> 00:33:38,129
original supporters of Smart Growth

1135
00:33:38,130 --> 00:33:39,130
say it's right.

1136
00:33:40,780 --> 00:33:42,909
That Smart Growth policy set

1137
00:33:42,910 --> 00:33:44,889
in motion an unprecedented

1138
00:33:44,890 --> 00:33:46,749
degree of expensive

1139
00:33:46,750 --> 00:33:47,739
density.

1140
00:33:47,740 --> 00:33:49,659
And it started a vicious wave

1141
00:33:49,660 --> 00:33:50,829
of displacement.

1142
00:33:50,830 --> 00:33:52,929
A few years ago, at an event marking

1143
00:33:52,930 --> 00:33:55,239
the 90th anniversary of the 1928

1144
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:57,309
master plan that segregated

1145
00:33:57,310 --> 00:33:59,469
East Austin, Robin Rather

1146
00:33:59,470 --> 00:34:01,359
even issued kind of a formal

1147
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:02,469
apology.

1148
00:34:02,470 --> 00:34:04,869
I've apologized for my role,

1149
00:34:04,870 --> 00:34:07,899
but apologies are not nearly enough.

1150
00:34:07,900 --> 00:34:09,789
It's our responsibility right now

1151
00:34:09,790 --> 00:34:11,799
to put people first, not real estate

1152
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:12,519
first.

1153
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:14,408
If I made a mistake by supporting

1154
00:34:14,409 --> 00:34:16,269
a Smart Growth policy, I'll

1155
00:34:16,270 --> 00:34:18,099
say it. In fact, I have apologized.

1156
00:34:18,100 --> 00:34:19,329
I wish I'd never heard of

1157
00:34:19,330 --> 00:34:20,859
Smart Growth. I think it's been a

1158
00:34:20,860 --> 00:34:22,928
disaster for Austin, and I've

1159
00:34:22,929 --> 00:34:24,579
publicly apologized for my own

1160
00:34:24,580 --> 00:34:26,079
personal role in it.

1161
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:28,299
And, you know, in a lot of ways,

1162
00:34:28,300 --> 00:34:29,799
this is a conversation we're still

1163
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:31,419
having to this very day.

1164
00:34:32,510 --> 00:34:34,249
And we'll hear about that in a later

1165
00:34:34,250 --> 00:34:35,329
episode.

1166
00:34:35,330 --> 00:34:36,888
Thanks so much, Mose.

1167
00:34:36,889 --> 00:34:37,889
Thanks, Audrey.

1168
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:44,229
I want to go back to where this

1169
00:34:44,230 --> 00:34:45,944
story started, last episode.

1170
00:34:45,945 --> 00:34:47,859
A development

1171
00:34:47,860 --> 00:34:49,749
over the aquifer.

1172
00:34:49,750 --> 00:34:51,339
That is what started this whole

1173
00:34:51,340 --> 00:34:53,109
fight, an environmental fight to

1174
00:34:53,110 --> 00:34:55,059
make sure that this beloved place,

1175
00:34:55,060 --> 00:34:57,219
Barton Springs, stays clean

1176
00:34:57,220 --> 00:34:58,779
for decades.

1177
00:34:58,780 --> 00:35:00,129
But along the way, it became a

1178
00:35:00,130 --> 00:35:02,169
debate about something else,

1179
00:35:02,170 --> 00:35:03,909
about how the entire city should

1180
00:35:03,910 --> 00:35:05,799
grow, where new housing should

1181
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:08,049
be built, and whose neighborhoods

1182
00:35:08,050 --> 00:35:09,579
would change.

1183
00:35:09,580 --> 00:35:11,049
And that's a fight that's still

1184
00:35:11,050 --> 00:35:12,789
happening now.

1185
00:35:12,790 --> 00:35:14,349
Smart Growth, density, whatever you

1186
00:35:14,350 --> 00:35:15,339
want to call it.

1187
00:35:15,340 --> 00:35:17,319
These ideas are not objectively

1188
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:19,179
bad. Apartment buildings

1189
00:35:19,180 --> 00:35:20,049
are not bad.

1190
00:35:20,050 --> 00:35:22,539
Duplexes are not bad.

1191
00:35:22,540 --> 00:35:24,219
Being able to walk somewhere instead

1192
00:35:24,220 --> 00:35:26,799
of drive is not bad.

1193
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:28,899
The problem is, in Austin, these

1194
00:35:28,900 --> 00:35:30,789
things became a luxury that

1195
00:35:30,790 --> 00:35:32,500
only certain people could afford.

1196
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:36,049
A decade after Smart Growth, this

1197
00:35:36,050 --> 00:35:38,089
concept came back

1198
00:35:38,090 --> 00:35:39,829
with a different name and different

1199
00:35:39,830 --> 00:35:40,939
maps.

1200
00:35:40,940 --> 00:35:42,679
Now we were talking about building

1201
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:44,869
more places for people to live

1202
00:35:44,870 --> 00:35:46,609
all over the city.

1203
00:35:46,610 --> 00:35:48,619
And this time, the conversation,

1204
00:35:48,620 --> 00:35:50,239
well, it got really contentious, so

1205
00:35:50,240 --> 00:35:52,129
I'll call it a fight, happened

1206
00:35:52,130 --> 00:35:54,079
right out in the open on the public

1207
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:55,080
stage.

1208
00:35:57,050 --> 00:35:59,029
But before we even get to that, we

1209
00:35:59,030 --> 00:36:00,769
have to talk about tech, about how

1210
00:36:00,770 --> 00:36:02,989
Austin became Silicon

1211
00:36:02,990 --> 00:36:03,949
Hills.

1212
00:36:03,950 --> 00:36:06,199
That's next time on Growth Machine.

1213
00:36:09,870 --> 00:36:11,249
Growth Machine is a production of

1214
00:36:11,250 --> 00:36:13,589
KUT and KUTX studios

1215
00:36:13,590 --> 00:36:14,729
in Austin.

1216
00:36:14,730 --> 00:36:16,769
It's produced by me, Mos Buchele,

1217
00:36:16,770 --> 00:36:18,899
Nathan Bernier, Marissa Charpentier,

1218
00:36:18,900 --> 00:36:20,999
Jimmy Moss and Matt Largey.

1219
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:22,079
Production Help from Heather

1220
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:22,949
Stewart.

1221
00:36:22,950 --> 00:36:24,809
Technical help from Jake Perlman and

1222
00:36:24,810 --> 00:36:26,189
Renee Chavez.

1223
00:36:26,190 --> 00:36:27,899
Stephanie Federico is our digital

1224
00:36:27,900 --> 00:36:28,829
editor.

1225
00:36:28,830 --> 00:36:30,479
Special thanks to Elliott Shredder,

1226
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:32,429
Andrew Busch, the Austin History

1227
00:36:32,430 --> 00:36:34,529
Center and KVUE for archival

1228
00:36:34,530 --> 00:36:35,399
tape.

1229
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:36,400
There's more at

1230
00:36:38,310 --> 00:36:39,310
KUT.org/GrowthMachine.

1231
00:36:39,420 --> 00:36:40,919
I'm Audrey McGlinchey.

1232
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:41,920
Thanks for listening.